Grims "Perfected" DE army/2000/Comp

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**Grim Smasha**

I've cut all excess fat off. There's nothing but hardened, sinewy, muscles and angry killiness left. I crammed in more true born without losing any punch. Let me know what you think.

Thanks,

Grim-

HQ: 180
Haemonculus x3, Liquifier x3 (180)

TROOPS: 948
Wyches x8, Haywire Grenades, Hekatrix, Agonizer, Raider w/Shock Prow (191)
Wyches x8, Haywire Grenades, Hekatrix, Agonizer, Raider w/Shock Prow (191)
Wyches x8, Haywire Grenades, Hekatrix, Agonizer, Raider w/Shock Prow (191)
Warriors x5, Blaster, Venom w/Dual Cannons (125)
Warriors x5, Blaster, Venom w/Dual Cannons (125)
Warriors x5, Blaster, Venom w/Dual Cannons (125)

ELITES: 524
True Born x4, Blasters x4, Venom w/Dual Cannons, Trophies (178)
True Born x4, Blasters x4, Venom w/Dual Cannons (173)
True Born x4, Blasters x4, Venom w/Dual Cannons (173)

HEAVY: 345
Ravager w/Flickers (115)
Ravager w/Flickers (115)
Ravager w/Flickers (115)

TOTAL: 1997

**Da Piper**

I love the look of this list. It is so simplistically Hard punching. A lot of AT and enough anti-troop to deal with those horde armies that pop up.

**wuestenfux**

Looks pretty straightforward. I guess the Haemies go with the Wyches to hand over their pain tokens?

**Mr. Self Destruct**

The Raiders need Flickers. I'm sorry, but if I see an army of Venoms with 5++ all over and then Raiders without it, I'm shooting the Raiders and nerfing your CC from the getgo.
Apart from that, this is basically the stock 2k comp list. Really nothing else to it.

**Zid**

I prefer Duke Sliscus with my wyches... but either way; good list

**Thor665**

It's not a bad list, though I have a few niggles; all of them relating to vehicle upgrades.

What's the point of the Aethersails? I can not think of a situation where moving flat out 24" + 12" next turn + 2" disembark + 1-6" run + 6" assault does not manage to let you assault anywhere on the board. That's a 45"-50" threat bubble.

The board is only 48" wide, which means even in DoW you can assault a vehicle or any infantry that is more than three inches from the edge (also known as everything except very oddly deployed infantry) Do you really need a 15 point investment for DoW that will probably never even come up in that setup? What do you need the extra movement for?

I'd save the points and probably put them into shockprows or something - shockprows are pretty darn useful if your lance is popped, or there's a unit camping on an objective you want to shove back.

I am also a little iffy on the GTs on the Trueborn's boat. I don't think they're really all that helpful, though it's less forceful than my Aethersail issues.

My thoughts,
Thor.

**Brothererekose**

It's pretty much the list I run, but I have FFs on the raiders, not AetherS. They have made some clutch rolls. Except for AB's first mission, I haven't really seen a good reason for having AetherS.

The list stomps hard, but I have had quite a few losses too, not bad losses.

**Grim Smasha**

I love aethersails. They are invaluable against ig and tau. I can come off the table edge in any game type and practIcally gaurantee a turn 2 charge with the ladies. I don't think people know how I use them and hate them by default.

I don't give them flickers because I've found people either ignore those vessels or abhor the crap out of them.

What do any of you thInk of shredders for the warriors?

**Thor665**

@Grim - I expressed understanding of Aethersails (I...thought?), and explained how you could get Turn 2 charge against anything except (paired with a suck run roll) enemy infantry deployed along the very back edge of the board. No Aethersails needed. Only DoW is even a challenge for that, all other deployments and you do it easily.

Could you explain where I'm missing the point of Aethersails?

**Grim Smasha**

It's when they shoot the Wyche raiders down turn 1. Then there's no way to assault in turn 2. You assume those raiders are still running in turn 2 to get that charge off. Typically, for me, they aren't.

**Thor665**

What do you start on the table if going second in DoW? I'm guessing it's not a Wych boat...do you start nothing?

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Going first, rather, going second there's not too many armies that will be dumb enough to muscle forward that much that are also a long range shooting threat.

**Grim Smasha**

Depends, really. It changes per game per army kinda thing.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Yeah, I cant really even make an argument other than "I like them." So, what should I do with the 20 extra points?

**Thor665**

Well, as I noted in my first post (and especially if you dislike FFs or think they're meaningless due to flat out cover saves) getting shock prows is pretty viable.

Your Raiders can now tank shock for objective contesting purposes. (or to just gak with Necrons or small Ork squads and the ilk)
Also, you're a very deadly high speed missile after unloading your passengers - if the enemy doesn't deal with you then you can spear into any of his vehicles and be a high threat impact that can threaten even Monoliths and Land Raiders.

**Grim Smasha**

done

**Loricatus Aurora**

All good to my eyes, right down to the hubris in your title!