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So I remember in Storm of Iron the Iron Warriors used a contingent of Khorne Berserkers as assault troops. My question comes to you, whether I should paint them as Iron Warriors with red detail, straight up Iron Warriors, or red with Iron Warriors shoulderpads. Here's some of my IW for reference:

I would say, paint then as iron warriors and add some splats of blood over their armour with a red wash.

I'd go with red detail, like a red arm/shoulder pad or helmet or such. Perhaps a Khorne icon on the left shoulder instead of the standard IW.

I would go with the standard IW scheme with red helmets. It would be subtle yet distinguishing, yet at the same time tie them in with the rest of the army. Plus, I really want to see if the metal, red, yellow/black hazard stripes work together as well as they seem to in my head.

Jon

I'll be doing the same next time I get a chance to paint (and once my FW stuff arrives).

Given that the colours of Khorne (circa RoC) are Red, Black and Brass, I'll be painting them as Iron Warriors with additional details in black and brass - that way they will still fit in very much as Iron Warriors. Probably very little in red, but the Berserker helmets etc will serve to distinguish them (if I use them)

I've also been avoiding the whole furs and horns "space viking" aspect that turns up in a lot of Blanche artwork for IWs, preferring to be less organic overall - I may use that space viking aspect for the berserkers with Horned Helms and fur etc if I avoid the "bunny ears" helmets.

Depends how I go with it, if I avoid red armour I'll probably give them red eyes as my IW mostly have blue eyes. (I've used Blue in the same way you've used Green)

Definately the Khorne Icon shoulder pads and chestplates, though.

Might be a bit patronising, but have you see the codex examples of how to merge KBs into your army?

Henners91 wrote:Might be a bit patronising, but have you see the codex examples of how to merge KBs into your army?

D'oh! I totally forgot the Black Legion berserkers. It's even worse since one of my favorite opponents back home ran a squad painted like that!

I like all your ideas guys - the general consensus seems to be to paint the helmets and shoulderpads red and paint the rest as standard IW scheme. Coincidentally, that's how they appear in the codex! I'm not 100% sure where I'll put the caution stripes if I want the shoulders to be red, but I'll figure something out. Thanks everybody!

Chaos don't have shoulderpads, do they?

Perhaps paint the inside of the bunny ears?

Are you actually using them as "Berzerkers" in the sense that they come from the World Eaters Legion remnants--or are they "Berzerkers" in that they're Iron Warriors devoted to Khorne?

Context matters here SRM!

For the first one: I'd paint them as normal for World Eaters Marines.

For the second one: I'd paint them as Iron Warriors, with some red runes, maybe a few pieces of armor stained red or things like that. Make it obvious that they're Iron Warriors first, Berzerkers second.

Kanluwen wrote:Are you actually using them as "Berzerkers" in the sense that they come from the World Eaters Legion remnants--or are they "Berzerkers" in that they're Iron Warriors devoted to Khorne?

Context matters here SRM!

For the first one: I'd paint them as normal for World Eaters Marines.

For the second one: I'd paint them as Iron Warriors, with some red runes, maybe a few pieces of armor stained red or things like that. Make it obvious that they're Iron Warriors first, Berzerkers second.

You might even want to use different heads if you're going for option 2.

Henners91 wrote:Chaos don't have shoulderpads, do they?

Perhaps paint the inside of the bunny ears?

They do, just like loyalists. In fact, theirs are spikier!

Kanluwen wrote:Are you actually using them as "Berzerkers" in the sense that they come from the World Eaters Legion remnants--or are they "Berzerkers" in that they're Iron Warriors devoted to Khorne?

Context matters here SRM!

For the first one: I'd paint them as normal for World Eaters Marines.

For the second one: I'd paint them as Iron Warriors, with some red runes, maybe a few pieces of armor stained red or things like that. Make it obvious that they're Iron Warriors first, Berzerkers second.

I'm using them as Iron Warriors who fell to Khorne. I'd like to keep their berserker helmets though, as I want to mark them out as berserkers for gameplay purposes and I don't want to buy more Iron Warriors bits packs!

I have no idea why I wrote that... such a stupid question... and I have Chaos Marines on my desk in front of me right now o.O

Are iron warriors chaos undivided?
If i were you i would just paint them straight up iron warriors, and instead of being khorne beserkers theyre just marines with chainsword/pistol.

Nice models.

I know that C:CSM has images of the specialist troops under the black legion, IIRC they would wear the Iron Warriors' hearaldry, gut their pad with the Khornate Icon would remain red. Or you could just put some Hazard stripes on a berzerker, and use the Iron Warriors legion insignia for your shoulder pads.

If it were me, I wouldn't use the Berzerker Helmets on them.

I'd use the just plain CSM helmets.

Jollydevil wrote:Are iron warriors chaos undivided?
If i were you i would just paint them straight up iron warriors, and instead of being khorne beserkers theyre just marines with chainsword/pistol.

Iron Warriors are undivided, but in their old Index Astartes article they were allowed to have one Khorne Berserker squad in their army. There's precedent for it, as in Storm of Iron they had a small contingent of Khorne Berserkers (not World Eaters) as shock troops. I'd like to keep the bunny ear helmets for cost reasons and as a means to distinguish them further from my standard troops. All CSM have chainswords and pistols, so it wouldn't really be worth getting another squad of basic Marines.

Brother SRM wrote:

Jollydevil wrote:Are iron warriors chaos undivided?
If i were you i would just paint them straight up iron warriors, and instead of being khorne beserkers theyre just marines with chainsword/pistol.

Iron Warriors are undivided, but in their old Index Astartes article they were allowed to have one Khorne Berserker squad in their army. There's precedent for it, as in Storm of Iron they had a small contingent of Khorne Berserkers (not World Eaters) as shock troops. I'd like to keep the bunny ear helmets for cost reasons and as a means to distinguish them further from my standard troops. All CSM have chainswords and pistols, so it wouldn't really be worth getting another squad of basic Marines.

I just meant instead of devoting them to khorne, just make them counts as and paint them like iron warriors. Your choice though, its all the same in the end.

Now that I actually have the example in the dex in front of me, the studio team painted the helmet and khorne pad red and brass, the rest of the mini is in the standard legion colors. The issue I would have with that is the red really stands out in the one place since the pad is somewhat out of view.

When i did mine i painted the entire model in IW colours except the sholderpads. I used Khorne pads and did them in Scab red and Brass trim to make them really stand out.

You can get some additional red on the model by adding blood spatter across the arms and torso, this helps to dull down the silver and highlight the red some more.

Or try giving the model a light red wash to add a slight red tinge to the entire model. i have done this in green with some IW plague marines and it is quite subtle.

I'll try and find an image so you can judge for yourself.....




Automatically Appended Next Post:
OK, found some old pics of my 'zerkers. Please bear in mind that my painting skills are not up to yours and these were some of the first models i ever painted.

Hope they help you reach a decision.

This post made me laugh. I literally just finished painting up a unit of IW Khorne bezerkers. I just painted them to be Iron Warriors. The distinctive head easily marks them as Bezerkers, but it looks really good in the Metal/Gold of the IWs w/ some hazard stripes here and there.

I have a big tourney this weekend that I am still painting for. I will try to get you some pics early next week, if I ever get some good weather to take pics with. (No light box).

I miss that old list that was referred to. More specifically the Basilisk and the Servo-Arms. I put a servo arm on every model I could, just for them sake.

I'm glad to have seen this thread, for I grappled with the exact same quandary for my guys. I was originally going to cop out and just do World Eaters who hung out with my dudes, but seeing Praxiss's pics makes me thing maybe I should indeed go with the same colors as the rest of my guys and do one red pad or something. It's a good looking scheme, easy to paint to a nice standard and you can scale up as fancy as you want to make it.

I really do think that the Berzerker Helmet detracts from the whole theme.

Kanluwen wrote:I really do think that the Berzerker Helmet detracts from the whole theme.

That's up for debate. I'd rather have them with the berserker helmets though, since to get the matching Iron Warriors helmets that the rest of my models wear would cost about $35 and I'd rather not double the cost I'm paying for these guys, like I have for everyone else. It will also clear up that they're berserkers, not just Marines with MoK.

In my opinion they'd look fine with one or both shoulderpads painted red.

Kanluwen wrote:I really do think that the Berzerker Helmet detracts from the whole theme.

'Zerkers wouldn't be 'Zerkers without their helmets.

If they're Berzerkers, then they should be in the colors of the World Eaters.

Berzerkers refer specifically to World Eaters Marines or members of World Eaters splinter warbands.
It's not like Plague Marines or Noise Marines, where they're a generic subtype.

Berzerkers refers to Khorne, hence the bloodlust, not the world eaters as far as i am concerned.
It just so happened that the world eaters are Khorne.
I think the helmets are appropriate too !!

Kanluwen wrote:If they're Berzerkers, then they should be in the colors of the World Eaters.

Berzerkers refer specifically to World Eaters Marines or members of World Eaters splinter warbands.
It's not like Plague Marines or Noise Marines, where they're a generic subtype.

Kanluwen wrote:Are you actually using them as "Berzerkers" in the sense that they come from the World Eaters Legion remnants--or are they "Berzerkers" in that they're Iron Warriors devoted to Khorne?

Context matters here SRM!

You said it yourself that they can be either.

Kanluwen wrote:If they're Berzerkers, then they should be in the colors of the World Eaters.

Berzerkers refer specifically to World Eaters Marines or members of World Eaters splinter warbands.
It's not like Plague Marines or Noise Marines, where they're a generic subtype.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Khorne_Berserker

The original Berzerkers came from the World Eaters Legion led by Angron, who turned to worshipping the Blood God once they renounced the Emperor; however, Marines from other Legions and more recently turned Renegade chapters, also took to Khorne worship, becoming Khornate Berserkers.

Also, have my codex in hand - it says that Khorne Berserkers (or those wishing to become them) usually join the World Eaters, but many other legions and warbands have Berserkers too. It specifically says the Black Legion berserker-surgeons who perform the lobotomies are second to only those of the World Eaters. There's precedent for them to be from any warband.

Skarwael wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:If they're Berzerkers, then they should be in the colors of the World Eaters.

Berzerkers refer specifically to World Eaters Marines or members of World Eaters splinter warbands.
It's not like Plague Marines or Noise Marines, where they're a generic subtype.

Kanluwen wrote:Are you actually using them as "Berzerkers" in the sense that they come from the World Eaters Legion remnants--or are they "Berzerkers" in that they're Iron Warriors devoted to Khorne?

Context matters here SRM!

You said it yourself that they can be either.

"Berzerkers" refers to a specific kind, namely members who were part of the World Eaters Legion or splinter warbands associated with them.

This doesn't mean that others don't refer to devotees of Khorne as "Berzerkers" however. It's like how many people refer to Plague Marines (incorrectly) as Death Guard, when Plague Marines are a specific type of Marine which the Death Guard has a preponderance of.

I thought my original post was pretty clear, but eh.

Brother SRM wrote:Also, have my codex in hand - it says that Khorne Berserkers (or those wishing to become them) usually join the World Eaters, but many other legions and warbands have Berserkers too. It specifically says the Black Legion berserker-surgeons who perform the lobotomies are second to only those of the World Eaters. There's precedent for them to be from any warband.

There's precedence for berserkers, not Berserkers.

Like I said, context matters. Anyone can be a Khorne devoted berserker, but Berzerkers are supposed to be a step above them.

And as I said, really the only thing turning me off the idea is those damn helmets. They make sense for World Eaters or a warband with ties to them, but in a force where they are supposed to be coming from a proper Legion like the Iron Warriors they just feel too "off". It's like imagining that one day Dave wakes up, decides he wants to go get skulls for the skull throne and asks the Quartermaster for a bunny helmet today, while Sam feels a bit under the weather and wants a gas mask. You'd think they would keep their own wargear, rather than trade it in for something else just because they've found a religion.