Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hi, I'm still having problems with getting into Imperial Guard as the play style is so different to what I normally work with. So I've decided to make one list that I know will be good competitively as I don't want to spend all that money on an Imperial Guard army if I decide I need to change some things as it isn't competitive on a larger scale. So I'm going for a build type that I know is competitive, and it's going to be Leafblower. I've changed my mind about Hydras, etc since reading the rumours that they may be getting some new plastic kits, as this is an army I am going to spread out the purchases for so that I don't have to read the price tag of a bajillion pounds. So here is the list that I have rattled off so far, and was wondering if anyone had any advice that they could give me to help me change the list in order to make it more competitive.

HQ

CCS (135)
-Officer of the Fleet
-Chimera
-Turret Mounted Heavy Flamer (for angling to hit things without exposing side armour and things)

Elites

PBS (6 Sanctioned Psykers, 1 Overseer) (135)
-Chimera
-Turret Mounted Heavy Flamer

Troops

Veteran Squad (In a Vendetta) (90)
-2 Melta Guns

Veteran Squad (In a Vendetta) (90)
-2 Melta Guns

Veteran Squad (135)
-Autocannon
-Chimera
-Hull Mounted Heavy Flamer

Veteran Squad (135)
-Autocannon
-Chimera
-Hull Mounted Heavy Flamer

Veteran Squad (135)
-Autocannon
-Chimera
-Hull Mounted Heavy Flamer

Fast Attack

Vendetta (130)
-2 Twin-Linked Lascannons

Vendetta (130)
-2 Twin-Linked Lascannons

Heavy Support

Hydra Flack Battery (3 Hydras) (225)

Manticore Rocket Launcher (160)
-Heavy Flamer

Ordnance Battery (2 Medusas) (300)
-Enclosed Crew Compartments
-Heavy Flamers

Thanks in advance for your help!

The biggest problem with your list is your chimeras carrying auto cannons and a heavy flame turret. The two items are two conflicting. I would swap out the autos for more meltas, or plasmas. If you really want to use auto cannons includes a platoon squad and use heavy weapon squads.

Honestly mate just use heavy bolter or multilaser turrets on the chimeras. Take a hull heavy flamer if you are desperate and think they'll help.

The autocannons in the veterans arent needed, if you have 2 vendettas and 3 hydras. Also, vendettas have 3 not 2 twinlinked lascannons.

Change the vet autocannons to heavy bolters. Change the hull and turret weapons on their chimeras to heavy bolters. Now you will have some rediculous anti-horde vets in armoured boxes that any horde list will be scared of. While the hydras and vendettas and melta vets you have hunt tanks and transports.

I suggest these things because your weapons are a bit unorganised. Can you see how i suggested it, you will get more shooting and therefore more effect?

Yeah, ok thanks for the quick responses, for some reason the software that I used to make the list told me 2 Lascannons, but 3 sounds nicer .

I'll swap the Heavy Flamers for Heavy Bolters, as I suppose Deep Striking armies are going to struggle to get amongst my vehicles as they will be relatively close, but not too close.

I'll also probably go for Plasma guns on the Vets, but 3 Plasma guns is 35pts more than the Autocannons for each squad, where do you suggest I get the extra points from to do this?

Thanks again for your help!

I disagree completely about Hull Heavy Bolters. You always want the Heavy Flamer. 3 extra S5 shots is never worth the killing potential of a Heavy Flamer in the right circumstances.

That said, here are my recommendations...

Veteran Squads are fine with Autocannons but they should be getting Autocannons IN ADDITION to having 3 Special Weapons. Never run only 2 Meltaguns in a squad. Either run 3, or 2 PG and 1 MG, or whatever. Never just 2 SWs though.

Officer of the Fleet isn't that great. You're better off putting a bunch of Melta Guns in that squad and throwing it in a Vendetta if you fancy a hit squad.

3 Hydras are cool...I ran them for a while as a triplet but found quickly that 2 worked *almost* as well...it's a major pain in the ass keeping all 3 Hydras stationary to maximize their output, and actually having unobstructed LOS to a target. If you need points I'd recommend scratching one of these.

eyebone wrote:The biggest problem with your list is your chimeras carrying auto cannons and a heavy flame turret. The two items are two conflicting. I would swap out the autos for more meltas, or plasmas. If you really want to use auto cannons includes a platoon squad and use heavy weapon squads.

This is not the biggest problem with your list.

Basically I agree with Nuggz. You're paying 135pts for those autocannon vets, cough up 30 more and they're five times better.

Third hydra seems the obvious source of points here, so I'll say drop that.

I also think you should reconsider the medusas. Medusas are absolutely the most dangerous guns in the game when they hit, but their drawback is that they can't fire indirectly, so must expose their crappy armor to shoot. This makes them more accurate, but a wise opponent knows that they're actually orders of magnitude more deadly than a vindicator, so they generally won't survive unless you use careful and proper positioning. You may also want some backup firepower in case you miss an annihilator or something.

That's why it's going to be especially tricky to use them in a squadron. Odds are you'll lose both if you screw up, and it's even harder to position two of them. So yeah, I would either cut one out, or make them basilisks. Because you may as well use this slot to synergize pinning with that PBS, and basilisks can munch marines and kill vehicles as well. They're great.

Another option would be griffons. Since you'll add meltas it's possible you won't need as much anti-tank and they're a much cheaper (and more accurate) way to create pinning. Edit: plus griffons can hide behind chimeras. Basilisks are going to have to take cover saves unless you play with a proper amount of LOS-blocking terrain (unlikely...)

Hi again, sorry it's taken me quite a while for me to re-post to the thread but I've been unable to as I have been on holiday for a bit and internet access was ridiculously over-costed at the place that I was staying but, anyway. I've refined my list based upon your advice and a copy of it can be found below.

HQ

CCS (135)
-Officer of the Fleet
-Chimera
-Heavy Bolter Turret
-Heavy Bolter Hull

Elites

PBS (6 Sanctioned Psykers, 1 Overseer) (135)
-Chimera
-Heavy Bolter Turret
-Heavy Bolter Hull

Troops

Veterans (In a Vendetta) (100)
-3 Melta Guns

Veterans (In a Vendetta) (100)
-3 Melta Guns

Veterans (165)
-Autocannon
-2 Plasma Guns
-Chimera
-Heavy Bolter Turret
-Heavy Bolter Hull

Veterans (165)
-Autocannon
-2 Plasma Guns
-Chimera
-Heavy Bolter Turret
-Heavy Bolter Hull

Veterans (165)
-Autocannon
-2 Plasma Guns
-Chimera
-Heavy Bolter Turret
-Heavy Bolter Hull

Fast Attack

Vendetta (130)
-3 Twin-Linked Lascannons

Vendetta (130)
-3 Twin-Linked Lascannons

Heavy Support

Hydra Flack Battery (225)
-3 Hydras
-Heavy Bolter Hull Weapons

Manticore Rocket Launcher (160)
-Heavy Bolter Hull Weapon

Ordanance battery (180)
-2 Griffons
-Heavy Bolter Hull Weapons
-Enclosed Crew Compartments

This list comes out at a total of 1790, so I still have 10 points spare. Thanks for your help.

Well this looks much better. Putting ACs with PGs feels like an excellent compromise. There's still some things I'd change though:

-Use ML turrets on your chimeras, they're much better than HB.
-Consider hull HF carefully before taking hull HBs, it's a much more dangerous weapon.
-Get special weapons in your CCS, and if possible a third for those veteran squads. I would probably still drop the third hydra.

Done, I'll post another revised list just so that it's easier to stay on top of changes

HQ

CCS (135)
-Officer of the Fleet
-4 Plasma Guns
-Chimera
-Multi Laser Turret
-Heavy Flamer Hull

Elites

PBS (6 Sanctioned Psykers, 1 Overseer) (135)
-Chimera
-Multi Laser Turret
-Heavy Flamer Hull

Troops

Veterans (In a Vendetta) (100)
-3 Melta Guns

Veterans (In a Vendetta) (100)
-3 Melta Guns

Veterans (165)
-Autocannon
-2 Plasma Guns
-Chimera
-Multi Laser Turret
-Heavy Flamer Hull

Veterans (165)
-Autocannon
-2 Plasma Guns
-Chimera
-Multi Laser Turret
-Heavy Flamer Hull

Veterans (165)
-Autocannon
-2 Plasma Guns
-Chimera
-Multi Laser Turret
-Heavy Flamer Hull

Fast Attack

Vendetta (130)
-3 Twin-Linked Lascannons

Vendetta (130)
-3 Twin-Linked Lascannons

Heavy Support

Hydra Flack Battery (225)
-2 Hydras
-Heavy Bolter Hull Weapons

Manticore Rocket Launcher (160)
-Heavy Bolter Hull Weapon

Ordanance battery (180)
-2 Griffons
-Heavy Bolter Hull Weapons
-Enclosed Crew Compartments

Thanks again for your help, this time the list comes out at 1775pts, what do you suggest should happen with the remaining 25?

Didn't notice this before but I see now that your melta vets have no chimeras. You can have them ride in vendettas, it's not unplayable, but it's not the ideal setup either. This is because you want to be able to fire lascannons and move around melta simultaneously, rather than being forced to pick one or the other every turn.

Vendettas are also high-priority targets on their own, putting the melta somewhere else is inherently preferable, in order to present twice as many dangerous units. Your configuration gives two supremely deadly vehicles that everyone with little exception will work to kill as fast as possible. More often than not, this will result in your melta getting stranded in your own DZ.

Like I said it's not unplayable by any means, since a lot of the time you'll probably need a stationary camping squad anyway and the mobility is a nice bonus, but it's something I would work on. Losing one griffon and the crew compartment could pay for the two chimeras, along with those 25pts you still have. If this doesn't bother you, maybe spend them on some fun stuff like a power fist, or find 5pts for a demo charge.

Ok yeah, I'll put them in Chimeras then, you make a good point. The plan was to scoot the Vendettas up and hopefully blow up enough stuff with my initial Alpha Strike to keep them alive, then drop them on objectives near the end of the game, but if the Vendettas were destroyed, they wouldn't be too close to my board edge seeing as I would have used the 24" scout move to try and expose side armour and in doing so I would get my Melta Vets close, but yeah. I'll change it over when I can, probably tomorrow. Thanks

Gee... I would be tempted on replacing the Griffons with a second Manticore. You said leafblower, right? Otherwise this is a mech gunline list with only 1 real artillery.

For your CCS, drop two plasma guns for a AC or Lascannon. Add a MoO so you can throw out another Pie plate because your now stationary. You want leafblower, for 30pts this gives you another shot to toss out there.

I will also say this... Hull heavy flamers are best on assaulting Chimeras. That is the rule of thumb because your melta vets need to be close where the heavy flamer may get in range with something to shoot at. But if your camping and not moving the Chimera because your rapid firing your plasma or using your heavy weapon, keep the hull heavy bolters.
Nuggz is generally right because 3 shots at BS 3 means your lucky if you hit 1-2 times while the template doesn't have a to-hit roll. But having a weapon you may never fire or will only fire once or twice because your not advancing where you can fire the HB every turn with that Str 6 Multi-laser... yeah. Gives you 6 shots per Chimera to pump into troops and you /should/ wound if you hit. It is just Power Armor/cover will stop most of the shots.

Almarine is giving you good advice concerning the Vendettas... much better as gunships then as a suicide unit to drop vets in close. Those Vets are better off in Chimeras. But you can't really run only two units of melta vets either... give them the same load out as the rest of your vets. I would suggest upgrading a Vet HWT or two to a Lascannon to give you some other option for long range AT besides the Vendettas would not hurt either.

I will also say this... your PBS has a huge target on it. In Guard, I don't like having just one unit and expect it to be effective. If I were you, I would seriously consider either adding a second unit or droping the one for more vets or even a second CCS.

Yeah, I just noticed that the Griffons cannot fire indirectly, so I would agree with you that a second Manticore would be better. I'll just refine my list again and post it up in a few minutes. Thanks.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So here we go, I had to drop the PBS in order to fit the ammendments in, but now I'm 60pts under, and that won't buy me any more vets or another CCS. So here's the list as it currently stands.

HQ

CCS (205)
-Officer of the Fleet
-Master of Ordanance
-2 Plasma Guns
-Chimera
-Multi Laser Turret
-Heavy Bolter Hull

Troops

Veterans (In a Vendetta) (155)
-3 Melta Guns
-Chimera
-Multi Laser Hull
-Heavy Flamer Turret

Veterans (In a Vendetta) (155)
-3 Melta Guns
-Chimera
-Multi Laser Hull
-Heavy Flamer Turret

Veterans (165)
-Autocannon
-2 Plasma Guns
-Chimera
-Multi Laser Turret
-Heavy Bolter Hull

Veterans (165)
-Autocannon
-2 Plasma Guns
-Chimera
-Multi Laser Turret
-Heavy Bolter Hull

Veterans (165)
-Autocannon
-2 Plasma Guns
-Chimera
-Multi Laser Turret
-Heavy Bolter Hull

Fast Attack

Vendetta (130)
-3 Twin-Linked Lascannons

Vendetta (130)
-3 Twin-Linked Lascannons

Heavy Support

Hydra Flack Battery (225)
-2 Hydras
-Heavy Bolter Hull Weapons

Manticore Rocket Launcher (160)
-Heavy Bolter Hull Weapon

Manticore Rocket Launcher (160)
-Heavy Bolter Hull Weapon

Again, any suggestions would be much appreciated. Thanks for your help.

Your points are off for the CCS and your hydra battery if that's 2 hydras listed.

It's a typical mech vets list so that's that. If your under 60 points you could drop the advisors and some plasma and get another vendetta.

Yeah, your Hydras say two hydras but your points are for three.

I guess your putting a AC in your CCS to make it 205pts?

If you have 75pts from the 3rd Hydra and 60pts, that is indeed a 3rd Vendetta.

Another option is to actually fill in the last two plasma guns in your plasma vet squads for 30pts and upgrading the ACs in the Vets and CCS (if your CCS was supose to have a AC) to Lascannons. But I think the 3rd Vendetta is a better use of the points.

Your Melta Vets Chimeras can not have a Multi-laser in the hull. I think you have the locations swapped. I wouldn't use them for assault, as two lone chimeras are dead meat. If your going to leave them as melta vets, use them for rear area defence or as a reaction force against DSing walkers/terminators or outflanking vehicles.

Whoops, my bad, I forgot to change the points for the Hydra and add the AC, I'll correct that tomorrow when I have time, sorry for the confusion, and while I do this I shall add the ammendments that you have suggested, as they seem good, and I'll do the Plasma option If I just forgot to change the points for the Hydra's and don't actually have the spare points, if not, additional Vendetta sounds good. Thanks again.

Ok, I'm afraid that it was just a mis-type on my part, so it is only 60pts I'm afraid, but anyway, here is an ammended version of my list.

HQ

CCS (205)
-Officer of the Fleet
-Master of Ordanance
-2 Plasma Guns
-Autocannon
-Chimera
-Heavy Bolter
-Heavy Flamer

Troops

Veterans (155)
-3 Melta Guns
-Chimera
-Heavy Bolter
-Heavy Flamer

Veterans (155)
-3 Melta Guns
-Chimera
-Heavy Bolter
-Heavy Flamer

Veterans (190)
-3 Plasma Guns
-Lascannon
-Chimera
-Heavy Bolter
-Multi Laser

Veterans (190)
-3 Plasma Guns
-Lascannon
-Chimera
-Heavy Bolter
-Multi Laser

Veterans (175)
-2 Plasma Guns
-Lascannon
-Chimera
-Heavy Bolter
-Multi Laser

Fast Attack

Vendetta (130)
-3 Twin-Linked Lascannons

Vendetta (130)
-3 Twin-Linked Lascannons

Heavy Support

Hydra Flack Battery (150)
-2 Hydras
-Heavy Bolters

Manticore
-Heavy Bolter

Manticore
-Heavy Bolter

Total: 1800

Ok, thanks everyone for your help, hope this one is correct mathematically, C&C once again welcome. Thanks

Doesn't look to bad... I would leave the Multi-Lasers on the Chimeras and either go hull heavy bolter for campers or hull heavy flamers for attackers.

I would take the 2 plasma gun unit and make them 3 melta guns. I would also consider taking a Lascannon and make it two Autocannons to put a AC in that one melta vet unit that doesn't have a HWT. This way they all have a heavy weapon to fire.