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I'm at a crossroads with how to continue building my Space Marine scout army and I've come to the internet for advice. So far I've collected 25 scouts, 1 LSS and 2 Dreadnaughts (TLLC/ML & TLAC), all of which I'll be using. My dilemma is whether or not this sole surviving marine from 9 or 10 years ago should become a Shrike or Kor'sarro Khan:


I would field Shrike to give my scouts a much needed 'Fleet' as well as being able to assault on turn one. However, I don't think this army would be much fun for my myself or my opponents since it would boil down to the same game over and over since it's really a one trick pony where my opponent deploys and then I either win or lose. But scouts on foot would be so much better with 'Fleet'

Or! I could take Khan and a Chaplain in a Land Raider to buff up one squad enough to be scary. But that would leave my other CCW scouts high and dry. Khan would also be harder to model since he's not very distinguished beyond normal captains besides his fur cloak

Ultimately I think a Shrike list is the equivalent of a zergling six pool rush that I'd have to work with every game while Khan would be more flexible and interesting, yet I'm still undecided. I'm looking for experienced members to provide their input and critic, or any other fresh ideas on how to make an effective army of scouts without "cheesing"

With Khan you should take some more biker squads somehow?

Doesnt sound that fun with Shrike, but if you wana win in tournements take him ...


otherwise, LYASNDER

i voted lysander becuse its entirely your opinion.

if you can sculpt Khan or you find him the most fun to play, use him!

or if you like the idear of fleet for the scouts (and a damn-good character), use Shrike!

You could go with the chaplain idea but with Shrike getting roughly both ideas at once.

Scout rush with fleet is by no means cheesy, so many things can just cut them down so easy anyway in melee.

Abbadon, cause he has no arms lol
Shrike is probably the better choice, he's not all that cheesy, since scouts arent the scariest assault troops out there.
Khan is more at home on top his bike with an army of bikers.

I would agree with the others. Mass scouts only really scares people who can't stand up in a fight like tau or IG. And against those codexes the game will go one of two ways:

1) You go first, you assault the bubble wrap and kill it. You and your 4+ armor save are blown off the board in a withering hail of gunfire.

2) Your opponent goes first. You are blown off the board in a withering hail of gunfire.

A good fun list with Shrike, but certainly not cheesy, I would happily face him with just about anything I run.

Thaylen wrote:I would agree with the others. Mass scouts only really scares people who can't stand up in a fight like tau or IG. And against those codexes the game will go one of two ways:

1) You go first, you assault the bubble wrap and kill it. You and your 4+ armor save are blown off the board in a withering hail of gunfire.

2) Your opponent goes first. You are blown off the board in a withering hail of gunfire.

A good fun list with Shrike, but certainly not cheesy, I would happily face him with just about anything I run.

So either way I can't win? Scouts are no slouches

And scouts can be scary! Khan + Chaplain + scouts = 30 S5 attacks at I5 and re-rolling misses (and 'Hit & Run') in a scoring Land Raider with two characters for 650. But that'd still only kill 3 to 5 TH/SS Terminators. But that's better than killing no TH/SS Terminators

Any reason I should actually field Captain Lysander besides 'Bolster Defences' and standing around looking good? Turns out I actually have him! He still needs a dull coat mind you

Yes but for the same points I could put hammernators in a LR for 450-460 and call it a day. The hammernators will outperform the scouts on just about everything short of ork boyz. The scouts are also WS3 w/ a 4+ armor save, this makes the far less resilient in CC as well. MC's and dreads will tear the scouts apart.

If I'm using khan, I'd much rather run him with a squad of lightning claws s5 powerweapon attacks w/ rerolls is nasty.


As for lysander, there are several good ways to use him. You could put him in a pod and deepstrike him w/ a squad of sternguard. 10 Sternguard w/ combi-bolters in a pod w/ Lysander rings in at about 535points. My favorite mix is either 10 melta or 5 melta/5plasma so I can combat squad when I land and crack a LR open w/ one half, and plasma the insides w/ the other half. This usage has good alpha strike and leaves a lysander w/ a few meat shields on the enemy's front line, giving the rest of the army some time to breathe.

My other lysander tactic is a bit less shock and awe, I simply put him in a big mob of 10 tactical termies. I typically run them interspersed around a trio of vindicators to discourage people from getting too close to my tanks. 20 twin linked bolter shots and 4 missiles will encourage most infantry to away from the vindis.

Look, scouts are good, terminators are good. But alone both of them suck.

I say take both and use them to help one another. here are 2 battle reports by Gitsplitta who uses scouts, land speeder storms, and scout bikers and kicks a** (want to know his trick? just read the 2 reports and study his list)

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/396536.page

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/397832.page


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@Thaylen
Yes hammernators in a LR is solid, But the OP is asking about scouts. Spitting on scouts and telling the OP to use something else is no help at all, your not even giving him tactics what your doing is list building.

Plz if you are going to post, post something help full AND related to what the OP asked.

True enough, I suppose the discussion has gotten off topic. I meant to point out the weaknesses of scouts rather than just saying they are meh and leaving it at that.

Do scouts have combat tactics? Pedro might work better for them since he gives a +1 attack bubble and would make them Stubborn if they have "Combat Tactics".

Lysander is good just because he makes your army stubborn and he's a 4W Eternal Warrior with S10.

Shrike is the better option for your army. The ability to fleet gives you much-needed foot speed and opens up a few other options to help make your army more competitive.

The brutal truth is that an all-scout army is a theme army, and is not very competitive. By limiting yourself in codex choices, you will start to really fall behind in higher point games. Just accept it as a fact and play to have fun.

If you want to add a competitive edge to the army, you will need to add some models that are out of an all-scout theme. One example of this would be 10 fleeting TH/SS termies that infiltrated with shrike. Adding some backline support like predators or typhoons will also make your army much more competitive if you want to play in tourneys.

The Shrike + Hammernators thing is good, but I think you need 20+ TH/SS Terminators to really make it work. The Deathwing armies you see, for example, work well because they're fielding 36 guys at 1,500-1,850 all with 2+/3++.

At 1,850 consider doing...

Shrike

3x10 TH/SS Terminators.

4x5 Scouts, Sgt w/ Combimelta and PF


One squad infiltrates, the other 2 take up the slack. Your opponent probably wont wipe 10 TH/SS Terminators in one round of shooting, so the other two squads should reach them in T2.

While 30 TH/SS Terminators with Fleet sounds scary, you'd be hard pressed to ignore Vulkan for around the same points cost, Master Crafting all those Thunder Hammers...

NuggzTheNinja wrote:While 30 TH/SS Terminators with Fleet sounds scary, you'd be hard pressed to ignore Vulkan for around the same points cost, Master Crafting all those Thunder Hammers...

I think fleet beats MC the hammers. The difference between a 12" threat range and a 13"-18" threat range is huge. Heck, if you have them coming out of a 12" moving land raider, they have a threat range of 23"-28"!

The MC hammers means 1 missed swing per hammer can be rerolled, it does not make all the hammers twin-linked. On the charge, each hammer has 3 swings, so it ups the hits from 1.5 per hammer to 2 per hammer.
While its good, I don't think that it beats the extra assault range.

Also, I disagree with you that you need 30 terminators to make Shrike work. One squad of fleeting terminators costs you 400 points, and will attract a lot of attention. Your opponent has to deal with that squad as its going to be on his lines on turn two. This allows for you to use the rest of your army without real fear of reprisal.
One of the better marines players I played with used this to a extremely painful advantage. I would be forced to focus on the termies while his typhoons, predators, and sterngaurd caused me lots of headache.

I probably won't ever be using TH/SS Terminators since I already own a big yellow beatstick. Anyways

whitedragon wrote:Do scouts have combat tactics? Pedro might work better for them since he gives a +1 attack bubble and would make them Stubborn if they have "Combat Tactics".

Lysander is good just because he makes your army stubborn and he's a 4W Eternal Warrior with S10.

Kantor is actually a perfect compromise! Except he might actually be doing everything I want better than either Khan OR Shrike

Khan boosts a single squad in CC / Kantor buffs everyone within range
Shrike alpha strikes with 'Fleet' / Kantor alpha strikes with Sternpods

Plus he's the easiest to model! I just need a GK storm bolter and a cool scenic base

Kantor
CCW Scouts w/ power fist
CCW Scouts w/ power fist
5 Bolter Scouts w/ power fist (bolters because I magnetized the scouts that come with the LSS)
Storm w/ heavy flamer
5 Scout Bikes w/ locator beacon & power fist
7 Sternguard w/ 6 combi-meltas & Drop Pod
7 Sternguard w/ 6 combi-meltas, power fist, Drop Pod
Ironclad Dread w/ Drop Pod

30 scouts, 15 vets, 1 mortally wounded guy: 1500pts on the button. Seems kind of perfect

Thanks for the help everyone, let me know what you think!

I voted Khan before I realized you had already decided on Kantor.

Good choice on list, however Shrike give's everyone FLEET. Including the Sternies and Ironclad. That is awesome, especially as the IRONCLAD gets move through cover like your scouts. I love my Scout bikers, many players forget that Astartes Grenade Launchers can Rapid fire, nothing like 6 Krak grenades, and 2 Twinlinked Bolters hitting a unit (many a heavy Infantry unit has succumbed to this tactic).

On the subject of PF on Scout Sergeants, i have had mixed experiences with my scouts. I have settled on PW and Melta-bombs, as it is 5 points cheaper and i don't sacrafice the Initiative, which when scouts are concerned can be critical, they can die very quickly against a unit.

Also I have a few Sgt models with PW, Combi-Flamer and Melta's bombs. This is useful for thinning a horde, before charging in with the PW (at the Sgt WS), then you can still rapid fire, and melta bomb armoured units but you sacrafice the +1 Attack for 2 CCW (But you are a Sgt).

Dropping a PF, is a difficult choice as the Instant Death is a cheeky little trick against Multiwound characters....

umm, the last post before you, was posted in September. just saying.

yup, it's hardly Thread Necronmancy, maybe borderline. But i'm not dragging things up from 6 months ago.