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Hi there, just wanted to quickly ask, does everyone else find skull white out of the pot useless for undercoating/priming. I used to use it years ago to undercoat but now it just doesn't seem to take to plastic. I've already added about 6-7 layers to a shoulder pad but its still rubbish. I know i could use spray paint but was wondering if this was a common phenomenon or have i just got a dodgy pot of skull white?

seriously? if you dont prime your minis youll always have problems with painting them.

no matter if its white,red,black...

I'm trying to prime them. I want to know if people have trouble priming with skull white paint from a pot?

HamHamLunchbox wrote:seriously? if you dont prime your minis youll always have problems with painting them.

no matter if its white,red,black...

That is what he doing with the skull white. Before everyone used sprays we used to hand undercoat with normal black and white paint.

On topic, dumb question have you shook the pot a hell of a lot, and then even more? Found that GW paints tend to have settled a lot when I've needed to use them. Still using i-Kore white I bought 25 years ago in a huge bottle so can't comment of skull white specifically for priming when I ran out of white spray.

Primer is different from normal paint. It's designed to provide a good surface for paint to stick to a model.

If you just use normal paint over plastic you will find it rubs off a lot easier.

Axlbush wrote:I'm trying to prime them. I want to know if people have trouble priming with skull white paint from a pot?

If they're trying, they no doubt are. Because Skull White isn't the right kind of paint for the job. You're not actually priming the mini using Skull White, you're just painting it white

A good primer for miniatures, is basically any common spray paint. But if there's something on the mini that can strain through common spray paint, you might want to buy a spray paint specifically designed for priming cars. Or alternatively, give the mini a coat of varnish before priming.

There's no particular reason not to use a spray paint. They're cheap, quick & easy to apply. And you end up with a much thinner layer of primer than if you paint the primer on by hand. Their only downsides are how toxic & messy they are. Wear gloves & spray your stuff outdoors.

Get yourself some Vallejo Polyurethane surface primer. You can get it in various colors including white, goes on thin from a brush, doesn't obscure details and provides a great surface for painting plastics or metals. You can get it in 17ml, 60ml, or a monstrous 200ml bottle. Paint from a pot really isn't the way to go. Once you use this stuff you won't go back.

Yeah, hate to repeat everyone, but you need to get some real primer. Paint isn't meant to do the job as primer, think of it as a glue for the paint to hold on to.

Fair enough fellas, but like Vermillion said (whilst ageing me!) it used to do the trick in the 90s. I guess technolgy just moved on. Ain't got a prob with spray at all, so i'll just grab some. Was just curious cos black seems to go on fine

Try washing your sprues with a little dish soap and water before disassembling. Sometimes there may be residual chemicals still on the plastic.

Barksdale wrote:Try washing your sprues with a little dish soap and water before disassembling. Sometimes there may be residual chemicals still on the plastic.

Theres always that too, simplest soloution is often overlooked!

Nice tip, Barksdale. Will give it a go!

OR...prime using "primer"

White Primer/Skull White spray/Skull white-from-pot regardless - Be aware that when priming/basecoating with white that any chips on the following paint layers will be very visible. Not to put you off, but just be wary. . . I found this out the hard way.

If you are going to prime white, make sure you topcoat (clear spray/varnish) before you play too many games with your models.

Black on the other hand is more forgiving/less noticable.

Saying that, sometimes white primer/basecoat is the way forward for some colour schemes.

Its a learning curve YMMV.


EDIT: is that too many / ?

Just to be clear for future discussion, the difference between priming and undercoating is simply semantics, right? Back in the dark old days you undercoated a model first, usually black or white, before you painted it. This is the same as priming. I just wanted to get this clear cos a couple of the responses on this thread seem to suggest I'm not being clear. Or have i missed a more modern stage of painting?

Thats what it boils down to yes.

No. Priming is using a primer (spray generally, but gesso works as a brush on primer) to lay down a layer of paint that adheres to the material of the model. This works to create a 'tooth' for the following paint to stick to and creates a clean color to base your paint scheme from.

Undercoating is the first layer of color you brush on to the model.

In short, you should always prime with a spray primer or gesso before painting your models.

Eh...not so much. When you undercoat a model you are using a paint with a self leveling binder which leaves a smooth surface.
A primer has a less consistent binder and paint with larger granulation. It may appear smooth to the bare eye but it has more space between the hills and valleys of the dried coat.
That why GWs old Smelly Primer broke down into what looked like Talc in water. It was a poor product but it serves as a good example.

Axlbush wrote:Just to be clear for future discussion, the difference between priming and undercoating is simply semantics, right?

Yes and no. Like Todosi & AustonT said, it's not semantics. Priming means readying the subject for the paint job, and undercoating is the base colour of the paint job. But in the case of wargames minis both can typically be achieved with a single coating of spray paint of the appropriate colour. Spray paint binds well with the various materials minis are made of, provides a great surface to paint on, and covers the minis quite well.

The one thing spray paints don't do well in the context of miniatures, it is acting as a sealant. If there's something on or in the mini that can seep/stain, ordinary spray paint won't stop it. A proper primer or varnish, however, will. But unless you make your own sculpts or draw on your minis with markers or something, common spray paint is perfectly adequate.

I always thought that:

Priming = Special product for spraying/painting onto the bare plastic surface.

Undercoating = Same as priming, but without special products.

Basecoating = Laying down the basecolor on the mini.


I do believe, that many people use these descriptions but don't necessarily mean the same thing - which leads to confusion when you try to discuss this particular topic.

IMO, Priming with a dedicated product beats undercoating with just paint. I've used both spraycans, and paint on primers and they always led to a better result for me than just painting the bare plastic directly.

Cheers,


IK-Painter

Primer is a different formulation to regular paints.

It etches itself INTO the surface and provides a better surface for further paint to adhere to.

Spray paint just sits on the surface.

Priming with a proper primer will result in easier painting afterwards (you can get brush-on primers as well as spray primers).

Priming with SW is just failure waiting to epic.

chromedog wrote:
Priming with SW is just failure waiting to epic.

And yet is what many of us way back in the mists of time did. Hell even WD tutorials said start by undercoating with (insert colour here) using a spray is even quicker! They expected people to be sitting there with a few paints and a small collection of brushes.
Perhaps todays skull white is bad news waiting to happen, it did the job before they moved production abroad.

Wow, i'm glad i brought this up and that its produced some debate. For me personally its a bit of an epithony. I seem to have moved away from the hobby at a time when big strides in the development of painting were taking place. I'm excited about the prospect of using primer now and seeing if it improves my models overall - i paint a lot in bleached bone, the results of which i have been struggling with.
So to continue with the questions, are the Skull White and Chaos Black spray paints produced by Citadel suitable as primers? Can anyone recommend any other primers i can get hold of here in the UK?

Halfords I believe is your go to in the UK.
Vallejo now makes a brushable primer they make universally good, one might say suberb products.

I don't prime with skull white, but i find mine is quite hard to get a solid layer. Taking forever to base my marines with a white snow base.

i have had very good luck with the P3 Primers.
(Privateer press stuff)

If you like alot of bleached bone/white, look into deheb stone foundation for an alternative, i use it for my white then do a light light wash of Sephoria over it and it turns out great.

Axlbush wrote:Wow, i'm glad i brought this up and that its produced some debate. For me personally its a bit of an epithony. I seem to have moved away from the hobby at a time when big strides in the development of painting were taking place. I'm excited about the prospect of using primer now and seeing if it improves my models overall - i paint a lot in bleached bone, the results of which i have been struggling with.
So to continue with the questions, are the Skull White and Chaos Black spray paints produced by Citadel suitable as primers? Can anyone recommend any other primers i can get hold of here in the UK?

Personally I use the army painter stuff, usually pay around £7 for black and £8-£9 for colours other than white and black online, for single cans ebay is the way to go. They do a bone colour which I have had sitting around for 2 years now and not got round to using when I'm at my flat again in a couple of weeks will try it and let you know the results with pics if no one else can do so before hand.
I tend to spray in black most of the time especially now with high opacity paints available (GW foundation range for example). However for large areas of colour army painter stuff isn't too bad and will depend on what end colour I'm going for, so for a pale bone/yellow for an Iyanden guardian I'd start with white.

Once again thanks guys. I've been looking at the various options and was particularly drawn to the fact Army Painter has a skeleton colur spray. However whilst looking on ebay i saw Army Painter do some starter packs which contain a white or black can of primer plus their ten basic paints. What do people think of their pants. Is it worth investing in a starter set for £20 or are the paints themselves not that great? I'd happily settle for a white primer rather than skeleton primer as i have half an army already painted with a white undercoat and i'm not sure if a skeleton undercoat would change the final colouration of the models

I've been told their paints are pretty nice to use, the spray you get with the starter set is smaller than the standard sprays though. It might change the final colour using the bone undercoat, sometimes variation is good, sometimes not

JUst reusing an old thread i started to ask have any of the British guys used B&Q plastic primer - and is it any good?

Cheers