Games workshop feedback

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**nomotog**

I was browsing through the GW webpage and I noticed something. They have no forum, and I was just wondering how dose GW get feed back or interact with there customer base. Dose anyone know?

**Ascalam**

You are proceeding from a false assumption.

GW has no interest in customer feedback, unless it's 100% positive. They took their forums down because people were using them to do something other than toady

**Leonus Cohol**

Number one post that would be on GW forums:
Lower your prices.

**forruner_mercy**

And they respond with increasing.
When exactly did they increase the starting armies to $180?

When I first saw the CSM army was $180, I was like "That is obscene", but I figured it was a bit older, so I kinda brushed it off. But then I saw this:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440270a&prodId=prod1060108
Then I thought "This is bull

."

**Kanluwen**

Ascalam wrote:You are proceeding from a false assumption.

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black...

GW has no interest in customer feedback, unless it's 100% positive.

Wrong.
They have no interest in customer feedback if it's not constructive. What people assume to be customer feedback these days is mindboggling. Statements like "your models are too expensive, I can't afford them and therefore screw you GW!", "their paint tops suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck, wtf old style now!", "C: SM is op nerf now!" are not feedback, and it most especially is not feedback that anyone in their right mind should be reacted to by a company that isn't run by teenagers.

They took their forums down because people were using them to do something other than toady

Wrong again.
They took their forums down because people were doing nothing but crying about why army X has this and army Y doesn't and how it's unfair and that they should be sued for it, why army Z hasn't had their army book released yet, or complaining about how army X beat their army and everyone who plays army X cheats. In an atmosphere like that, the moderation team (which was all volunteers, mind you) had to constantly be locking threads. Since they couldn't outright ban anyone, they decided the best option was a scorched earth policy and to just get rid of the forums.

Nomotag wrote:I was browsing through the GW webpage and I noticed something. They have no forum, and I was just wondering how does GW get feed back or interact with there customer base. Dose anyone know?

They have a Facebook page that is monitored pretty heavily, and most regional branches of GW actually have their own page. A large amount of shops are getting Facebook pages, as it's a fairly easy way for them to do announcements for games and the like.
They have Twitter feeds for the "main" GW, and then things like GW North America and other regions.
They have an email account for customer service, etc which will all net you replies. Some questions they do actually have 'form letters' to reply to, and don't expect them to go hypercritical of their business practices as the CSRs have to toe the company line (which really, what company lets their own CSRs talk out against them?).

**Chowderhead**

forruner_mercy wrote:And they respond with increasing.
When exactly did they increase the starting armies to $180?

When I first saw the CSM army was $180, I was like "That is obscene", but I figured it was a bit older, so I kinda brushed it off. But then I saw this:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440270a&prodId=prod1060108
Then I thought "This is bull ."

You're in Australian GW, mate. It's an obscene 110 bucks in the States

**Necroshea**

Games Workshop
Customer Appreciation

You can only pick one.

Joking aside, for what it's worth the company never seemed very...how you say...friendly to me. The only thing I ever hear from them is "BUY THIS" or "BUYING THAT? BUY THIS TOO BECAUSE IT GOES GREAT WITH THAT". Let's not forget their how to roll dice book. For being a joke, more than a few people probably took it seriously. I'm not a big white dwarf fan (the subscription price is insane), so I can't say much for what goes on in that, but people I've spoken with who were subscribers/fans have told me how its lost it's life, and where once there were creative articles about how to do whatever, there are now more ads.

Yes, I know they are a business, I understand that they have to move products to survive, but compared to other companies I'm a customer of, games workshop just seems so...cold to me.

**Kanluwen**

No actual company is "friendly".

Their staff might be, but that's to sucker you into buying something.

**forruner_mercy**

Chowderhead wrote:
forruner_mercy wrote:And they respond with increasing.
When exactly did they increase the starting armies to $180?

When I first saw the CSM army was $180, I was like "That is obscene", but I figured it was a bit older, so I kinda brushed it off. But then I saw this:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440270a&prodId=prod1060108
Then I thought "This is bull ."
You're in Australian GW, mate. It's an obscene 110 bucks in the States

Well that fixes things. I had not set it to Australian, so IDK why that happened. Ah well, that fixes things, thanks

**Ascalam**

- Edited by insaniak. Keep it civil. -

I remember the forums, when they were still up. You did have the 'feth you, gw !' crowd, true, but well-mannered and reasonably laid out comments on the high prices, balance issues and SM obsession were also deleted quicker than a hacker's hard drive when the feds come knocking.

The facebook is mch the same. Post a well mannered but non-fanboy comment on there and see how long it stays up.

Have you ever tried offering constructive criticism to anyone in GW that actually might affect the status quo (design team members, for example) and not been met with either a brushoff (sometimes disguised with a smile) or a frown, followed by them moving swiftly on to another question?

Have you ever sent suggestions to GW by mail or E-mail offering ideas or commentary (well reasoned and non inflammatory, as opposed to 'feth you, GW stuff' and not been met with a form letter or a letter that just reeks of "I'm replying because the Customer Service strategy is that if i reply the customer will feel wanted and valued, and thus spend more! " while your commentary will be filed in the shredder.

I've worked for businesses with a similar CS/feedback model. They will do what they decide, and the customer base can go feth themselves, as they are all going to buy the new shinies anyway, no matter what they say now, at any price. They will, however, pretend to care and act enthusiastic about their product, as sincerity sells..

Selling to addicts tends to breed contempt. If customer feedback made an actual difference Ward would have been fired, because the internet hates Ward. This doesn't mean that every player hates his guts, but the general flow of opinion in the community is to fire the fether, which would be the feedback GW would be picking up on.

**insaniak**

forruner_mercy wrote:When exactly did they increase the starting armies to $180?

You're looking at GW Australia. Go to the bottom right corner of the page, and select US, and you'll see slightly more realistic prices.

Wrong again.
They took their forums down because people were doing nothing but crying about why army X has this and army Y doesn't and how it's unfair and that they should be sued for it, why army Z hasn't had their army book released yet, or complaining about how army X beat their army and everyone who plays army X cheats. In an atmosphere like that, the moderation team (which was all volunteers, mind you) had to constantly be locking threads.

That wasn't my experience. There were a lot of mindless complaints, certainly, but there were also a lot of fairly valid ones.

The Games Development board was a brilliant resource for as long as the staff deigned to post in there. It was only when they stopped posting regularly that the board really started to get out of hand.

If you give your customers a place to present feedback, and don't give them any sign that you're actually taking any notice of that feedback, you can't be surprised when the customers start to get a little more strident.

Since they couldn't outright ban anyone, they decided the best option was a scorched earth policy and to just get rid of the forums.

A wonderful side-effect of having a forum that was little more than a slightly beefed up bulletin board coded in-house by some guy with some programming skills, rather than installing a professional forum package.

**CadianCommander**

Wrong.
They have no interest in customer feedback if it's not constructive. What people assume to be customer feedback these days is mindboggling. Statements like "your models are too expensive, I can't afford them and therefore screw you GW!", "their paint tops suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck, wtf old style now!", "C: SM is op nerf now!" are not feedback, and it most especially is not feedback that anyone in their right mind should be reacted to by a company that isn't run by teenagers.

Wow, do you need a ladder to get off your high horse?

On the GW Price Hike and Embargo (one of them) threads a couple months back, I posted a well thought out, constructive, informative, well researched, questioning email a friend sent GW in regards to the embargo and level of price increase.

GW responded with a one line "We'll have to agree to disagree".

On a note - my job is to respond to customer feedback by phone, email and letter. My company would have me shot for responding in such a manner.

**H.B.M.C.**

And it was four posts in before the shields were at maximum this time. Kan-man, you're slipping.

nomotog wrote:... I was just wondering how ... GW ... [interacts] with there customer base ... ?

By raising prices.

**Necroshea**

Kanluwen wrote:No actual company is "friendly".

Their staff might be, but that's to sucker you into buying something.

At this years QuakeCon The head guy of Bethesda was sharing drinks with people and answering questions about the future of the gaming industry and such, and not once did he say or even imply that he wanted you to buy something from him. That comes across as pretty damn friendly to me.

When it comes down to it, I'd rather give him my money than someone who only talks about what they sell. You don't have to actually be nice, just put on a mask for publicity purposes.

**forruner_mercy**

Getting GW to genuinely care and listen to their customers is like trying to get a Noise Marine to listen to classical music.

**Pouncey**

forruner_mercy wrote:Getting GW to genuinely care and listen to their customers is like trying to get a Noise Marine to listen to classical music.

Hmm... It could be a new form of torture to be used on them in the excruciation chamber... MAKE IT SO!

**forruner_mercy**

Pouncey wrote:
forruner_mercy wrote:Getting GW to genuinely care and listen to their customers is like trying to get a Noise Marine to listen to classical music.

Hmm... It could be a new form of torture to be used on them in the excruciation chamber... MAKE IT SO!

You're right. Inter'sting*....

*Spell check did not check this

**Pouncey**

forruner_mercy wrote:
Pouncey wrote:
forruner_mercy wrote:Getting GW to genuinely care and listen to their customers is like trying to get a Noise Marine to listen to classical music.

Hmm... It could be a new form of torture to be used on them in the excruciation chamber... MAKE IT SO!

You're right. Inter'sting*....

*Spell check did not check this

Mine says it's a misspell.

**nomotog**

It sounds like GW needs a lesson in community management. When your fans are your biggest haters, something has gone wrong. It seems a little extra odd because I am used to companies having good relations with there customers.

**Kanluwen**

CadianCommander wrote:
Wrong.
They have no interest in customer feedback if it's not constructive. What people assume to be customer feedback these days is mindboggling. Statements like "your models are too expensive, I can't afford them and therefore screw you GW!", "their paint tops suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck, wtf old style now!", "C: SM is op nerf now!" are not feedback, and it most especially is not feedback that anyone in their right mind should be reacted to by a company that isn't run by teenagers.

Wow, do you need a ladder to get off your high horse?

Nope, because I don't actually have a horse. Appreciate the concern though.

On the GW Price Hike and Embargo (one of them) threads a couple months back, I posted a well thought out, constructive, informative, well researched, questioning email a friend sent GW in regards to the embargo and level of price increase.

GW responded with a one line "We'll have to agree to disagree".

You expected him to get more when he likely contacted the customer service department, which is there to handle rules questions(usually: roll a D6 or consult the FAQ's), problems with an order, or replacement models?

I also find that very odd, considering most people were saying they received multi-paragraph, form letters that effectively amounted to "We know our customer base and what they can bear, so go away."

On a note - my job is to respond to customer feedback by phone, email and letter. My company would have me shot for responding in such a manner.

I'd wager your company would also have you shot for responding to a question you're not qualified to answer, in all likelihood.

Insaniak wrote:That wasn't my experience. There were a lot of mindless complaints, certainly, but there were also a lot of fairly valid ones.

That wasn't my experience, Insaniak.

The Games Development board was a brilliant resource for as long as the staff deigned to post in there. It was only when they stopped posting regularly that the board really started to get out of hand.

The Games Development board was, imo, one of the worst parts of it. While it was nice that the staff posted in there, it also led to a lot of false assumptions by people.

Remember Codex: Pan Fo?

If you give your customers a place to present feedback, and don't give them any sign that you're actually taking any notice of that feedback, you can't be surprised when the customers start to get a little more strident.

There's also a point where you reach a critical mass where people get upset because one person's thread gets answers and another does not. I saw this the other day on Best Buy's forums when there were some 15+ threads about why the Gears of War 3 bonus preorder was not in many people's emails (answer: Best Buy's preorder system was messy. A preorder was its own item # and when you went to pay for your preordered game, the actual product # zeroed out your preorder balance).

Ascalam wrote:I remember the forums, when they were still up. You did have the 'feth you, gw !' crowd, true, but well-mannered and reasonably laid out comments on the high prices, balance issues and SM obsession were also deleted quicker than a hacker's hard drive when the feds come knocking.

Because they inevitably drew flamewars. You can post the most well-reasoned, thoughtful post you want--it won't stop an individual from replying with a nonsensical post filled with hate and bile.

The facebook is much the same. Post a well mannered but non-fanboy comment on there and see how long it stays up.

Because they say up front in the rules for posting on their Facebook page that they don't want you talking about stuff produced by other companies in the manner that people usually do (ex: 'why buy death korps, you can get WGF's stuff for a quarter of the price!') or company policies. You can call that draconian or stupid, whichever you want, but it is their page and they can do whatever the hell they want for it.

I should note that it's not just GW that does that.
I've had my own posts commenting on some of the less well-designed Mantic models deleted from their Facebook page. And it's usually posts as simple as "With a little bit of green stuff work, that would be good for a tabletop RPG. I'm not bringing this up out of a vendetta or as a "GW fanboy" as I'm sure someone will go the extra mile to say, but simply to put forward that the owners of these corporate sites can do whatever the hell they want with them and there's not a thing you can do about it since they let you post there at their discretion.

Have you ever tried offering constructive criticism to anyone in GW that actually might affect the status quo (design team members, for example) and not been met with either a brushoff (sometimes disguised with a smile) or a frown, followed by them moving swiftly on to another question?

Yep. But I don't expect them to actually do anything about it, simply because if they did everything that everyone suggested then Space Marines would be 15 feet tall and shoot rockets out of their arses while they fly around smiting demigods with waffle irons.

Have you ever sent suggestions to GW by mail or E-mail offering ideas or commentary (well reasoned and non inflammatory, as opposed to 'feth you, GW stuff' and not been met with a form letter or a letter that just reeks of "I'm replying because the Customer Service strategy is that if i reply the customer will feel wanted and valued, and thus spend more! " while your commentary will be filed in the shredder.

Yep. I've had quite a few exchanges through the post with Jervis regarding the Dark Angels.

How much of it actually will make a difference, I do not know.

. If customer feedback made an actual difference Ward would have been fired, because the internet hates Ward.

The internet also hates Justin Bieber, but look how well that's worked out for him.

This doesn't mean that every player hates his guts, but the general flow of opinion in the community is to fire the fether, which would be the feedback GW would be picking up on.

The general flow of opinion in the community can suck it. The majority of people have no real cares about who he is, or what he's written so long as it's balanced.

Necroshea wrote:At this years QuakeCon The head guy of Bethesda was sharing drinks with people and answering questions about the future of the gaming industry and such, and not once did he say or even imply that he wanted you to buy something from him. That comes across as pretty damn friendly to me.

Wanna bet that he didn't imply that he wanted you to buy something from him? In all likelihood, he plugged "Rage" (their forthcoming game) at least three or four separate times during this "shared drinks" session and the people there were screened before having them.

I should also note that it's quite presumptuous of him to talk about "the future of the gaming industry" considering Bethesda can't even get their games to work properly at launch.

When it comes down to it, I'd rather give him my money than someone who only talks about what they sell. You don't have to actually be nice, just put on a mask for publicity purposes

What do you think Jervis and the design team do?
For that matter, what do you think Phil Kelly was doing all this week in regards to "Dreadfleet"?

Nomotag wrote:It sounds like GW needs a lesson in community management. When your fans are your biggest haters, something has gone wrong.

The fans will always find something to gripe about with properties they love and the companies running them. It's as inevitable as the tide.

**Vaktathi**

Kanluwen wrote:
Wrong again.
They took their forums down because people were doing nothing but crying about why army X has this and army Y doesn't and how it's unfair and that they should be sued for it, why army Z hasn't had their army book released yet, or complaining about how army X beat their army and everyone who plays army X cheats. In an atmosphere like that, the moderation team (which was all volunteers, mind you) had to constantly be locking threads. Since they couldn't outright ban anyone, they decided the best option was a scorched earth policy and to just get rid of the forums.

A small point here. I don't normally consider myself a rabid GW hater, I do make a lot of complaints and criticicms but in the end I love the game. However, out of every tabletop, video or computer game or game company I can think of, Games Workshop is the only one that felt it had no choice but to shut down its own forums because the users apparently were being big meany heads. What went on there was literally no different from any other internet forum. For just about any other game company closing their forums would be damn near unthinkable. That says something rather pointed.

**Necroshea**

Kanluwen wrote:Wanna bet that he didn't imply that he wanted you to buy something from him? In all likelihood, he plugged "Rage" (their forthcoming game) at least three or four separate times during this "shared drinks" session and the people there were screened before having them.

I should also note that it's quite presumptuous of him to talk about "the future of the gaming industry" considering Bethesda can't even get their games to work properly at launch.

I would totally make that bet. Considering I was around to witness some of the conversations, and not once was rage mentioned. An interesting discussion was how people say that consoles are holding up the PC gaming market. Even if he was trying to sell me something, the point is I didn't even realize it, very much unlike GW's practices.

However, on that note, I'm going to drop this discussion. I find it interesting how adamantly you've defended Games Workshop regarding things I don't agree with, and how quickly you slam Bethesda for things I do not agree with. I would be lying if I said you don't come across as a massive GW fan boy to me.

I respect your opinions, but I couldn't disagree more with some of them.

**Kanluwen**

Vaktathi wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:
Wrong again.
They took their forums down because people were doing nothing but crying about why army X has this and army Y doesn't and how it's unfair and that they should be sued for it, why army Z hasn't had their army book released yet, or complaining about how army X beat their army and everyone who plays army X cheats. In an atmosphere like that, the moderation team (which was all volunteers, mind you) had to constantly be locking threads. Since they couldn't outright ban anyone, they decided the best option was a scorched earth policy and to just get rid of the forums.
A small point here. I don't normally consider myself a rabid GW hater, I do make a lot of complaints and criticicms but in the end I love the game. However, out of every tabletop, video or computer game or game company I can think of, Games Workshop is the only one that felt it had no choice but to shut down its own forums because the users apparently were being big meany heads. What went on there was literally no different from any other internet forum. For just about any other game company closing their forums would be damn near unthinkable. That says something rather pointed.

And a small point here, it wasn't that "people were being big meany heads".

It's that they couldn't adequately moderate web forums given the size of the registered users.

**CadianCommander**

You expected him to get more when he likely contacted the customer service department, which is there to handle rules questions(usually: roll a D6 or consult the FAQ's), problems with an order, or replacement models?

I really love your big sweeping assumptions! It's awesome fun and terribly annoying at the same time.

I'd wager your company would also have you shot for responding to a question you're not qualified to answer, in all likelihood.

I either don't answer those questions and pass them onto the relevant department/person, or I have them checked first. I don't answer with "oh well".

Try this:

This is great in the long run for Australian hobbyists, because again Games Workshop don't invest any money in the local scene either.

Email to GW:
-Original Message-----
From: Bestia
Sent: 23 May 2011 15:11
To: HobbyService; UK Web Orders; US Customer Service; Investor
Relations; Mark Wells; dan@theeternalwarriors.com;
11thcompany@tangtwo.com; contact@imperialvoxcast.com;
Lounge@Gamerslounge.coda.net; mail@worldsendradio.com
Subject: Open Letter to Mark Wells

Dear Mark Wells

Thanks for the copy and paste reply to the concerns of Gamers worldwide. The five minutes you took to dodge the issue was very telling. Now let me address your points in your open letter.

"As you know, we introduce people to the Games Workshop hobby of collecting, painting and gaming with Citadel miniatures through our Hobby Centers and local independent trade accounts. Games Workshop Hobby Centers run introductory games and painting sessions, beginner lessons, hobby activities and events. We provide all these services free of charge. We only recover this investment if customers then buy products from us."

This maybe the case in America and the UK, this is not the case here in Australia. Here club's play in local scout halls and community centers, without any support from Games Workshop or their stores. We run tournaments, club days, and painting sessions, all off our own back, and at cost to ourselves.

"Where we don't have a Games Workshop Hobby Centre, we support local independent trade accounts. These businesses provide a convenient place for customers to buy our products close to where they live. We support these businesses with local customer service teams and warehouses to ensure customers have immediate access to our best selling products and new releases. Many customers discover the hobby this way."

Again this might be the case in the UK, but here in Australia, most of the hobbyists come across our gaming clubs, and either buy or are given a small army to start with, and then buy their own army up.

"In addition we invest millions of pounds every year in our design studio and factory to ensure that each month we release more new products. This makes the Games Workshop Hobby more exciting for existing customers, helping them stay in the hobby longer. We can only afford to do this because of the volume of customers we have recruited and developed through our local Hobby Centers and trade accounts."

Yet you have rule books and models that have not been update for over 10 years. On top of that you have a number of incomplete model lines and have decided to completely ignore a very strong and loyal community, the blood bowl community.

"It is for this reason that we have changed our European Trade terms. Over recent years, a number of currencies have moved a long way from their historical relative values, and this has opened the door for some traders to try to take advantage of these currency movements and offer deep discounts to overseas hobbyists. This has been the case with European internet traders selling to some of our customers overseas."

The reason many of the Australian Hobbyists go to the European internet traders is simple. You mark up the cost on Australian prices - 70% to 120%, regardless of the exchange rate, but more on that later.

"While this may seem great in the short term, the simple fact is that European internet traders will not invest any money in growing the hobby in your country. Their model is to minimize their costs and free-ride on the investment of Games Workshop and local independent shops in creating a customer base."

"The inevitable consequence if this was allowed to continue is that Games Workshop would not be able to operate Hobby Centers, nor to support local trade accounts. And if this happened in more territories outside Europe, the loss of volume would leave Games Workshop no choice but to scale back our investment in new product development, further eroding our customer base. Not something that we or our customers would want us to do."

Again, if there was realistic results from your product development it wouldn't be such a big issue. But for a company that strongly refuses to get involved in the tournament scene. Nor give anything back to the Australian community; this at least to me translates to "Increase our sales margin as the number of units we are selling are decreasing".

Podcasts like The Eternal Warriors, Imperial Vox Cast, Independent Characters, The 11th Company, The Gamers Lounge, World's End Radio, have done more for encouraging and keeping gamers playing 40k then Games workshop has done in the last 12 years I have been playing this game.

"That is why we took the decision to take legitimate action to restrict European trade accounts from selling the goods they purchase from Games Workshop outside Europe."

While the actions were legitimate, they come across as money grabbing and immoral; attempting to milk the average gamer of everything they have, up to the point where they will not put up with anymore. On top of that Games Workshop as decreased cost creating their miniatures, they increase the price.

While I understand Games Workshop is a company that is at the end of the day trying to make a profit, please understand why Games Workshop will never get another dollar from my hobby fund. But I must thank you, because of your choices; I have found games like War Machine, Malifuax, Firestorm Armada, and Dystopian Wars. As well hobby supplies from Miniatures supplies from Reaper and Gale Force 9.

Thank you for understanding, and I hope that your choices do not lead to the closure of Games Workshop
Bestia
23/05/11

Now...the response?

From: "Investor Relations" <InvestorRelations@games-workshop.co.uk>
Date: May 24, 2011 18:28:43 GMT+08:00
To: Bestia
Subject: RE: Open Letter to Mark Wells

Dear Bestia,

I'm sorry you feel that way. It seems we are not going to agree on these issues. There's not much else I can say but thanks for making your feelings known to me.

Yours sincerely,

Mark Wells

Or maybe you think Mark Wells isn't qualified to answer on the company's practice. Or that he is only able to give "roll a D6" responses.

Sorry about the multiple edits and managing to cut the first half of the email off originally - big computer issues today.

**Kanluwen**

Wait, that's what you call a "well thought out, constructive, informative, well researched, questioning email" letter?

If I were the head of a company, and someone sent me a letter ending with
"Thank you for understanding, and I hope that your choices do not lead to the closure of Games Workshop ", I'd have filed that wonderful piece of mail in the shredder.

Bear in mind, that's discounting the use of terms such as "money grubbing", "immoral", and the grand finale which is the sweeping "thank you" which essentially comes across as "Screw you, I've found four game systems which are cheaper!".

**kronk**

nomotog wrote:I was browsing through the GW webpage and I noticed something. They have no forum, and I was just wondering how dose GW get feed back or interact with there customer base. Dose anyone know?

Here you go.

PHONE
Customer Services: 1-800-394-4263

Monday through Friday
9:30 a.m. to 6 p.m. CST

Our Customer Service department is equipped to handle any questions or problems you may have with an order or product. Use this number to report problems with an order, let us know about missing or damaged components, or have us answer any queries about your order.

MAIL
Games Workshop Customer Services
6211 East Holmes Road
Memphis, TN 38141
USA

E-MAIL
Custserv@games-workshop.com

**CadianCommander**

That's the second email he sent. Not the first one.

You, Kanluwen are such a fanboi you will read anything anti-GW as being poor and find some excuse as to why the poster is wrong.

I'm off this thread, there's no point cos noone can make a constructed argument without getting a "yeah? well sayz you and you're wrong!" from yourself.

**Howard A Treesong**

Kan has been bending over backwards recently. He claimed on another thread that metal figures had as many flaws as finecast. Yeah, sure. How common was it for GW to sell you metal figures fit only for the bin?

**Kanluwen**

Howard A Treesong wrote:Kan has been bending over backwards recently. He claimed on another thread that metal figures had as many flaws as finecast.

No, I said that metal can have just as many flaws as resin.
Misquote all you want.

Yeah, sure. How common was it for GW to sell you metal figures fit only for the bin?

When they first started selling in pewter?

Fairly common.

**purplefood**

CadianCommander wrote:That's the second email he sent. Not the first one.

You, Kanluwen are such a fanboi you will read anything anti-GW as being poor and find some excuse as to why the poster is wrong.

I'm off this thread, there's no point cos noone can make a constructed argument without getting a "yeah? well sayz you and you're wrong!" from yourself.

Be fair, Kan isn't a fanboy.
It's more likely he thinks people are being unrealistic about GW as a company rather than he is a fan boy...
This is mainly because he is a robot and therefore completly devoid of any emotion.