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I've only got a pair of games under my belt but here's where I'm thinking my list should go.

Major Brisbane
Triumph
Lancer

Journeyman Warcaster
Stormclad

Stormblades w/Officer, Standard & 2 Stormgunners

My local group includes everything from a Khador Jack fiend to all sorts of weird Hordes lists. I need to be able anything that they might throw at me. So what do you folks think?

Where's Reinholdt? I would drop Triumph for a defender add another gunner + Reinholdt.

Ya you really really want Reinholt with Siege. I don't really think Siege needs a Lancer either.

If you drop Trumph for a Defender (2 points) and then the Lancer that gives you 8 to work with.

Add in Reinholt and the Squire (leaves you with 5).

With 5 points I would suggest:

B13 + Gunner
or
Arlan + pEyris

There are more combinations especially if you went with 1 gunner, you could pick up another infantry unit.

Once I can actually find a Reinholdt I'll probably drop a Stormgunner to pay for him. Triumph has enough enhancements over a basic Defender that he's a must for me. Siege is enough of a badass in CC that I don't really miss the loss of the Shock Hammer, and Triumph's extra point of RAT and 2 armor makes him a superb assassin. Particularly when I use the Arc Node and Force Hammer to knock things down.

But is the list itself a reasonably viable all-comers list?

Sanguinary Dan wrote:
But is the list itself a reasonably viable all-comers list?

It can be, however Siege is not a melee caster...if he gets into melee on purpose then hes screwed hes only MaT 6...so he can't hit that often.

I'm glad you like Triumph but he will be in combat by turn 3 if your opponent is smart and therefore hes useless as an assassin.

Even when screened, charge wise, by the FOXHOLED Stormblades and Stormclad? I know there are some builds that can swamp me with dirt cheap infantry, but I hope that all the electrical AoEs the Stormblades can create will thin them out pretty quickly. And with boosted attacks Siege has been very scary in combat. As I've said I've limited experience but he's mashed several jacks with that awesome hammer. So, so far so good. I know I'll run into melee focused casters that'll rip my face off if I let them. But with 3 Jacks who range from scary (Stormclad) to competent (Lancer) in melee along with the Knights I assume that if they get to Siege I get what I deserve.

And why doesn't Siege need the Lancer? Having the ability to fire off FORCE HAMMER from an off angle or an extra 12" ahead seems awfully darn useful.

I'd love to fit a Squire and Reinholdt in the list, but the only way I can see doing so is by dropping Jr and then I'm forced to rely on the Stormblade Officer's Jack Marshal skills and 2 points of pseudo-focus. I know they'll be the first things I add when I jump to 50.
______________________________________________

Which then leads to another question. After I spend the 3 points on those two models where do I go expanding to 50? Should I add more infantry? More Jacks? A mix? Twelve points isn't a lot, but I could add a really beefy unit of Trenchers. Or ATGM w/Officer and a cheap Jack (Charger or Sentinel). Or?

The simple answer is yes. The stormblades only make AoE's when they hit and with Rat 5 and no way to boost they wont hit often.

Force Hammer is nice but takes to much focus to be used every turn leaving him with just 2 focus to put on jacks or boost his rocket, and if the lancer isn't careful it will get caught in combat and then is there to just burn out cortex.

Going to 50 you'll want more infantry, siege can barely run 2 jacks efficiently, and Jr already has a solid jack.

I really wouldn't want to go to only 2 Jacks at 35, so if I drop the Lancer I'd have to replace it with another 6 or fewer point light. If I add a Squire that would only leave me the points for a Charger or Sentinel. And both of them appear to be Focus hogs. Is that a correct assumption? If Reinholdt arrives anytime soon it opens up a few more choices in the 5 point range, but the only one I own is a Minuteman.

For some reason I was certain the Stormblade's AoE effect was in melee as well. But with 10 shots I should score at least a couple of hits, even against infantry with a decent defense.

So when I step up to 50 I need to add some infantry. Will I be better off taking Mages w/Officer (6 points left to... upgrade the Lancer to a Cyclone, or?) or a unit of Trenchers with all the bells and whistles?

Sanguinary Dan wrote:I really wouldn't want to go to only 2 Jacks at 35, so if I drop the Lancer I'd have to replace it with another 6 or fewer point light. If I add a Squire that would only leave me the points for a Charger or Sentinel.

So when I step up to 50 I need to add some infantry. Will I be better off taking Mages w/Officer (6 points left to... upgrade the Lancer to a Cyclone, or?) or a unit of Trenchers with all the bells and whistles?

Drop the lancer and replace it with the charger. You don't have to feed it 3 focus a turn, just give it as much as you can spare. And get the squire, it helps Siege in too many ways to count, it really is auto include with him.

Gun mages and a marshalled ranged jack is money on Siege list. I would go with marshalled hunter or defender, but the meta here is jack/ beast heavy and that is going to affect the decision.

I'd sell my soul to have both, but I'd lose too much of what I like about this list. So I drop the Lancer to a Charger, gain the boosts to Siege and some mid weight firepower in exchange for the Arc Node and ability to melt an enemy Cortex.

Or should I drop the Stormgunners to pay for the Squire? At 50 points I can add them back in along with Reinholdt and an ATGM w/Officer UA. That would still leave me with 6 points for another light Jack or even some Trencher Commandos?

Sanguinary Dan wrote:I'd sell my soul to have both, but I'd lose too much of what I like about this list. So I drop the Lancer to a Charger, gain the boosts to Siege and some mid weight firepower in exchange for the Arc Node and ability to melt an enemy Cortex.

Or should I drop the Stormgunners to pay for the Squire? At 50 points I can add them back in along with Reinholdt and an ATGM w/Officer UA. That would still leave me with 6 points for another light Jack or even some Trencher Commandos?

I would drop the lancer to charger and squire. The stormgunners are part of the mini deathstar you are running and if you want to go with that they serve their purpose in that unit. I think Siege is solid caster, but doesn't give much to his units so they have to be self sufficient. You basically make the list to contain him and his battlegroup with ranged assassination theme and then add independent combinations to that. ATGM with UA work well with him, trenchers with grenadier are dirty on feat turn as is the new minuteman light jack. Only things I would keep with him in every list are squire and Reinholdt.

So here where I currently stand.

Siege
Triumph
Squire
Stormblades w/Command and 2 Stormgunners
Journeyman Warcaster

*Stormclad
*Charger
The question then becomes to whom do I attach the Jacks? Should I put the Stormclad with the Stormblades or with Jr? Does the Charger work better soaking up all 3 of Jr's Focus or getting whatever Siege has left to give him? If the Speculator model shows up anytime soon I can drop a Stormgunner to pay for him. Maybe.

The next step is the jump to 50 points for a tournament coming up in November. But that one require 3 different Caster lists to be used over 4 games. So maybe I'll deal with that after the 35 pointer in 2 weeks.

Jr could handle the Charger or Stormclad. It all depends on who she is casting Arcane Shield on. If its on the Stormblades then she takes the Stormclad, as it will get the focus from being near Stormblades and Jr can add on 2 more focus for it (which it will want for close combat). The Charger goes under Siege in this situation.

I would take Reinholt over a Gunner any day with Siege if you can get him.

I would put charger to Siege as he then can benefit from Mage Sight, which is battle group only. And I second Reinholdt over storm gunner with Siege, the second shot with Siege's cannon is so much better than the short range shot from a gunner.

Here's a variation I'd like your opinion on folks.

Siege
Squire
Triumph
Minuteman

Strangewayes

Stormblades w/Cmd UA & 2 Stormgunners
Stormclad

Reinhardt-Tried him out tonight and I actually hate this little guy. Don't ask me why, just something about him bugs the bejezus out of me. I decided I'd rather have another Stormgunner. And I do understand how loony that makes me sound.

Sanguinary Dan wrote:Here's a variation I'd like your opinion on folks.

Siege
Squire
Triumph
Minuteman

Strangewayes

Stormblades w/Cmd UA & 2 Stormgunners
Stormclad

Reinhardt-Tried him out tonight and I actually hate this little guy. Don't ask me why, just something about him bugs the bejezus out of me. I decided I'd rather have another Stormgunner. And I do understand how loony that makes me sound.

Well not any more loony than bringing Triumph to every list to give two point handicap to the opponent

If the opponent has ranged attacks to get to Stormblades you are in a bit of trouble and winning objective games with this list is going to be uphill game. I would support more combined arms approach to cygnar list, but test run this and find out if it works for you.

How would you suggest I improve my chances with objectives? If I go with a basic Defender and drop the Minuteman I'd free up 7 points, but lose a Jack that can move 11" per turn without Running. Though I could go with a Charger/Sentinel and Journeyman.

You would want another unit of infantry. Jacks are good but infantry are where the game really goes with senarios. A jack can get thrown or slammed off an objective its much harder (aka usually takes more resources) to remove a unit of infantry.

For your list with 7 points (or 8 if you drop a gunner to pick up the UA) you could get Trenchers, Gun Mages and Sword Knights and a few other options.

As Casper says moar infantry. A unit of Trenchers (min), rangers or swordknights (min/ max) is not too big of an investment in points and they can contest a object for couple of turns easily with some positioning. All of these units have some defensive measures to help survivability too which is important with Siege who doesn't help much with that (except fox hole of course).

AD infantry especially is worth it's weight in gold in objective games and if they improve ranged accuracy or provide cover while contesting its more power to you.

Siege is a great caster in Steamroller as he with couple of other models provides great assassination potential and you can form the rest of the list to be more of object grabbers/ denial the opponent victory by object points.

Rangers are great for Siege. He goes from a mediocre RAT to being pretty solid at range. TBH, Rangers are generally just good all around for any of the shooty warcasters.

So if I drop the Minuteman, make Triumph a Defender and lose one Stormgunner I can add:

1) ATGM w/ Officer UA

OR

2) Trenchers w/2 Grenadiers

Currently these are the only other infantry I own. I plan to add some Commandos and maybe some Mercs (but I don't own that book yet) after I've played a few dozen more games.

ATGM + the dude every day and twice on Sunday. Rangers and Sword Knights would be the next thing I'd recommend that you should get. Rangers are Rangers, and Sword Knights are a cheap tarpit.

I'm not a huge fan of the Ranger models, but ya gotta love their stats.

But why Sword and not Precursor Knights? Those maces hit harder and ignore boosts.

Sword Knights are 4/6 and they are there to die and tie things up for Siege. 4/6 for Defensive line and arc shield makes for a pretty hefty pit in most cases.

I've still not received Reinholdt and I'm tired of using a proxy. So here's a 35 list I'm hoping to use tomorrow for some practice games. I've given up on Junior for now since Jack Marshal combined with Strangewayes seems more effective at this PV.

Cygnar
35+5 points, 22 models

Major Markus 'Siege' Brisbane  +5 points
* Defender  9 points
* Squire  2 points

Arcane Tempest Gun Mages  6 points
* Gun Mage Officer  2 points
** Avenger  9 points - With Rune Shot this thing will be almost as dangerous as the Defender. He'll slow the Mages down a bit, but one or the other can Run when required. And heaven help anything that gets hit with that sword.
Captain Arlan Strangewayes  2 points
Stormblades  5 points
* Stormblade Officer & Standard  3 points
* 2 Stormblade Storm Gunners  2 points

So? Good, bad or almost there? I've reduced the Jack Focus load on Siege, increased the number of infantry units and removed the need for the Stormblades to dance around a Jack trying to avoid blocking each other's charge lanes. And the ranged firepower enhancement is a lot bigger than I expected even with losing a light Jack.

It looks solid. I'm not sold on the Avenger over a 2nd Defender but I've never used the Avenger (I can't proxy) so please let use know how it goes.

That is pretty solid, only change I could think of to make it better would be shaving couple of points (stormgunners and avenger to hunter) and adding ranger in their place to make the shooting even more accurate.

But it certainly is a good list, which should give you excellent shot at winning and a nice template for shooty cygnar lists in future.

I don't yet own either a Hunter or Rangers, so I'm afraid neither is an option.

Right now I'm waiting to see what the TO says in relation to bringing the Avenger on the 8th. After all these years of 40K I was surprised to hear that PP doesn't like the idea of you converting their models to units from already published books that they have yet to release as official models. If I can't use the Avenger I'll have to basically rewrite the whole damned thing.

Sanguinary Dan wrote:
Right now I'm waiting to see what the TO says in relation to bringing the Avenger on the 8th. After all these years of 40K I was surprised to hear that PP doesn't like the idea of you converting their models to units from already published books that they have yet to release as official models. If I can't use the Avenger I'll have to basically rewrite the whole damned thing.

You don't need to, a Defender or Cyclone are 9 points and could fit the same roll. If not you don't want to go that way, I would suggest putting the Stormclad back in (dropping the Gun Mage UA) and adding in another Gunner/Reinholt.

Sanguinary Dan wrote:I don't yet own either a Hunter or Rangers, so I'm afraid neither is an option.

Right now I'm waiting to see what the TO says in relation to bringing the Avenger on the 8th. After all these years of 40K I was surprised to hear that PP doesn't like the idea of you converting their models to units from already published books that they have yet to release as official models. If I can't use the Avenger I'll have to basically rewrite the whole damned thing.

That has always been a rule of PP that if the model isn't released, it's not playable. Part of the grief that Ret (Destors) and Khador (MoW Bombardiers) have had over the years.