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I've just been discussing with a friend about the phenomenally bad decisions Games Workshop have made lately. (I havent seen threads about this specific topic, so i thought i would make one)

There's the embargo. A price rise while switching to a cheaper medium. Said cheaper medium being ridiculously badly quality controlled. The secrecy policy. White dwarf.

I fear Games Workshop are reaching some kind of nuclear overload state, and that will lead them to failing and falling out of the market.

I love games workshop. Warhammer 40k is my creative outlet, for one thing. There's so much i love about the game. The world, the setting, the models, everything. no other minis game has sucked me in like this. I started collecting in december last year and am only starting to get off the ground now. To lose my new, and favorite, hobby so soon, just as im getting my "ducks in a row" so to speak, would devastate me.

Enough of the emotional drivel.


my question is, Dakka, what do you think Games workshops fate is? Are they doomed to failure? or is there still a chance to salvage the company?

To me, it appears to be in a death spin, about to crash hard. I firmly believe that another Price increase will officially sign GW's death warrant, and be the trigger that leads to their demise.

What does dakka think?

Failure? Probably not. Drastic reform? Maybe eventually.

The way things are, they're going to keep trying this stuff until they fall flat on their face... but I doubt the company will collapse, as even the slowest will realise something is wrong before then there's still plenty of time for them to fix things, after all.

Obsidian Raven wrote:I've just been discussing with a friend about the phenomenally bad decisions Games Workshop have made lately. (I havent seen threads about this specific topic, so i thought i would make one)

LOL really? You haven't seen any other threads on this topic? Almost every thread int his subforum is about this topic.

There's the embargo. A price rise while switching to a cheaper medium. Said cheaper medium being ridiculously badly quality controlled. The secrecy policy. White dwarf.

I fear Games Workshop are reaching some kind of nuclear overload state, and that will lead them to failing and falling out of the market.

Oh noes, they must be doomed?

I love games workshop. Warhammer 40k is my creative outlet, for one thing. There's so much i love about the game. The world, the setting, the models, everything. no other minis game has sucked me in like this.

And there it is. GW is hardly failing or on its last legs even... They Are grossly successful even in one of the worst economic times we have seen in decades. Welcome to the club, you are addicted to the crack like everyone else and will continue to buy regardless of how secret, how much it costs or how badly they embargo to keep it from you.

my question is, Dakka, what do you think Games workshops fate is? Are they doomed to failure? or is there still a chance to salvage the company?

To me, it appears to be in a death spin, about to crash hard. I firmly believe that another Price increase will officially sign GW's death warrant, and be the trigger that leads to their demise.

What does dakka think?

Even if they are having 'problems' by the opinions of many fans, they are no where near the hyperbole of crashing hard, nuclear meltdowns, needing to be salvaged, death spins, death warrants or anything else. Companies run way worse than them with way worse products survive and continue on.

And even if the unforseen happened and GW slit its wrists, as the biggest doom and gloomers point out, someone will buy the IP and space marines will continue to be sold as palstic crac just under another company.

I hope they go out of business...than go back in business by means of dark magic, and when they come back they will lower their prices by 25%.... a man can dream

a man can dream...............

*drifts off into a perfect universe*

Obsidian Raven wrote:I havent seen threads about this specific topic, so i thought i would make one

Were you not online on Dakka in the 1-2 months after GW announced the embargoes, released finecast and most recently raised prices? I think the server was almost melted by the amount of threads on this and the root topics

Personally I see GW continuing their trend of falling sales being masked with cost cutting and price rises. I hope that they then either realise that they are driving away customers and sales in droves and try to redeem themselves, or are bought out by someone who has at least some vague clue about how to run a business and keep customers happy.

I just wish they would hurry up and stop being so stupid. How on earth does an entire company fail to see how bad they are doing. If they keep acting like a bunch of blind, deaf and stupid fools then they will crash and burn imo, see the error of your ways games workshop, before it is to late!

haloreach4ever wrote:I just wish they would hurry up and stop being so stupid. How on earth does an entire company fail to see how bad they are doing. If they keep acting like a bunch of blind, deaf and stupid fools then they will crash and burn imo, see the error of your ways games workshop, before it is to late!

So long as Kirby and the rest of the board can continue milking the dividends before they retire, I am sure they don't give a monkeys about what happens to the company.

This has been agrued so much it hurts my hands to type remembering how i had to defend dakka's honor.... the horror the horror.

They can't disappear, their IP is worth too much. Space Marines and all that, it's too good, look at how well the computer games do. Even if the company were to implode and all the shops close overnight, someone would buy it.

haloreach4ever wrote:I just wish they would hurry up and stop being so stupid. How on earth does an entire company fail to see how bad they are doing. If they keep acting like a bunch of blind, deaf and stupid fools then they will crash and burn imo, see the error of your ways games workshop, before it is to late!

You've been waiting 15 years for the ship to turn around, or even veer one direction or the other really... aaaaaaaaaaaaand now we realize GW is no ship... its a freight train; one that can not be stopped or turned with out serious modicifcations.


Bottom line, as stupid as I and many others think GW is being, the problem is they're making money... somehow. Until the market crashes on their head for them, I really don't how or why they'd change at all. I even suspect that when they do face crashing it will be more game and codex change than model pricing change.

I took operation's management last quarter. The professor told us...you're going to hate this class because I will show you why 90% of companies fail at their business.

I worked for GW before I went back to school, so I know exactly how they are run.

Long story short...Greed and shortsightedness is easy. Consider how leadership at the top is compensated. Consider that they are often paid based on a company's numerical performance in certain areas.

GW isn't here to provide you a service. They aren't here for you to have fun. The top leaders haven't made the connection between service, satisfaction, and financial success.

What can be measured are numbers. The company is graded by #'s. Sales now mean more for the books than something like retained loyalty or a satisfied customer base. That's why those decisions get made.

GW is very much a standard run production-line company. Progress is measured by how many widgets are produced, how fast, for how much cost, and for how much they are sold by. Typically, the orders that come down from high are contradictory, make no sense, and alienate the customer base.

I once wrote, "How does a company that sells more miniatures than any other company lose money?"

Simple...they've forgotten what really makes a game company successful. GW is so caught up in what they think the customer wants, that they've forgotten how to do business.

That's just how it is in business. It starts from the decisions at the top. It's no different from the muckup that netflix did recently, or why blockbuster went out of business.

I do realize I'm an alarmist, i tend to be, and i admit its a fault. But i didn't really expect to be flamed. anyway


I very very rarely browse this forum, so i didn't really see the other thread discussing this.

Im young. I dont understand business. Hell, i never even passed business studies. But honestly, to me, GW seem to be making more and more bad decisions and i fear it may lead to a failure.

GW is caught in a bit of a trap. Their success and dominance is maintained through an enormous network of shops. But this costs a fortune to support, so everything is painfully expensive. They also are in a cycle of raising prices to combat decreasing sales, and have been for a long time. This means that they can't reduce prices a little to make customers flood back. They'd have to slash prices, and they can't do that because their overheads are so high.

They are a long way off failing, but I think we'll see a painful decline which will eventually result in a buy out.

There is no question that GW's sales are down as found in their annual reports. However they aren't losing money as they are still turning a profit. This economy hasn't been kind to indulgences in a lot of people's budgets and has been less kind to many companies that sell those luxuries. There are probably alot of things GW could do to improve their business practices but they aren't even close to running the company into the ground. Remember they are paying huge sums of money to run a TON of retail stores, most of which probably don't come close to paying for themselves. It would be interesting to see how much expense GW was paying to keep their hobby centers open. If things get desperate they can always close most of them and likely be extremely profitable.

The_Stormrider wrote:It would be interesting to see how much expense GW was paying to keep their hobby centers open. If things get desperate they can always close most of them and likely be extremely profitable.

That's the problem, they are, probably rightfully, afraid they will lose their market prominence by shutting shops and becoming just like any other hobby company as more people buy their stuff on the internet or through independent shops.

They will be around as long as geeks like us are willing to buy and paint toy solders.

Just like TSR.

Howard A Treesong wrote:Just like TSR.

I never have or will buy a Magic card D&D book. But, I hear ya. TSR sold a "concept" conceived in books, without a lot of diversity. GW sells all of the above.

Seems to me they've lost it. Everything I've heard indicates that they used to be good, but have rapidly gone downhill. They're not just a freight train, they're a freight train on oiled tracks going down a -20% grade. Good luck stopping!

Wouldn't it be ironic if GW went under, and were subsequently bought out by either Chapterhouse or an Australian company?

TSR sold lots of things and licensed magazines, computer games and novels, they produced a wide range of products from different backgrounds over the years. They even got a cartoon series for Dungeons and Dragons which is far better known than the straight to DVD Space marine film. They are far more diverse than GW which has dumped all games that were not part of their Warhammer and who now barely support any side games even within those backgrounds, leaving just the three big games. GW is hardly 'diverse'. By the way, TSR didn't do Magic cards, that was Wizards of the Coast who bought the TSR brand when it crashed and burned.

TSR didn't die because roleplayers disappeared and equally GW won't survive just because there continue to be people who want to paint and play with miniatures.

I think even a simple thing like sales would increase GW profit and image.

Howard A Treesong wrote:TSR sold lots of things and licensed magazines, computer games and novels, they produced a wide range of products from different backgrounds over the years. They are far more diverse than GW which has dumped all games that were not part of their Warhammer and who now barely support any side games even within those backgrounds, leaving just the three big games. GW is hardly 'diverse'. By the way, TSR didn't do Magic cards, that was Wizards of the Coast who bought the TSR brand when it crashed and burned.

TSR didn't die because roleplayers disappeared and equally GW won't survive just because there continue to be people who want to paint and play with miniatures.

Reference, D&D now owned by Wizards(havent been interested since). "Magic card D&D" a dig on its current condition. Silly.

I started playing D&D in 1982 and very familiar with the history. Actually, D&D wasn't that diverse. Difference is friend, GW sells crack. TSR never did.

Howard A Treesong wrote:

The_Stormrider wrote:It would be interesting to see how much expense GW was paying to keep their hobby centers open. If things get desperate they can always close most of them and likely be extremely profitable.

That's the problem, they are, probably rightfully, afraid they will lose their market prominence by shutting shops and becoming just like any other hobby company as more people buy their stuff on the internet or through independent shops.

If GW stopped treating retailers like gak, this would not be an issue. Instead they play the game to "drive customers TO their stores" instead we just turn away to help failing local stores. GW could cut costs, lower prices and experience higher volume sales if they stopped trampling local retailers who would in turn WANT to sell their product. As it is now, there are a number of places that stock it only because they will sell with out any attention or second thought. Generally those places get UPSET when you ask em about GW product... :S

Odd One Out wrote:Seems to me they've lost it. Everything I've heard indicates that they used to be good, but have rapidly gone downhill. They're not just a freight train, they're a freight train on oiled tracks going down a -20% grade. Good luck stopping!

Wouldn't it be ironic if GW went under, and were subsequently bought out by either Chapterhouse or an Australian company?

what financials are you looking at? with approx. a 15M BPS profit, they are hardly going out of business. The problem that you see and complain about have more to do with their business practices than their ability to make money. They have the ability to make money are doing that quite well. The common complaint is that its cheaper to buy from non GW soruces than buy direct from the source. If GW sold their product to everyone for the same price they sold to their distributors, everyone would complain how they are killing their distributors and third parties. Its hard to find a balance between being a retail outlet and distributor.

Obsidian Raven wrote:the emotional drivel.


my question is, Dakka, what do you think Games workshops fate is? Are they doomed to failure? or is there still a chance to salvage the company?

To me, it appears to be in a death spin, about to crash hard. I firmly believe that another Price increase will officially sign GW's death warrant, and be the trigger that leads to their demise.

What does dakka think?

I think GW will do what it wants, and continue to lose sales. Eventually it will reach a point that it will either change, or it wont, or in abid to save itself will release warhammer 30k, horus heresy.....becuase people will gobble it up.

Obsidian Raven wrote:I've just been discussing with a friend about the phenomenally bad decisions Games Workshop have made lately. (I havent seen threads about this specific topic, so i thought i would make one)

There's the embargo. A price rise while switching to a cheaper medium. Said cheaper medium being ridiculously badly quality controlled. The secrecy policy. White dwarf.

I fear Games Workshop are reaching some kind of nuclear overload state, and that will lead them to failing and falling out of the market.

I love games workshop. Warhammer 40k is my creative outlet, for one thing. There's so much i love about the game. The world, the setting, the models, everything. no other minis game has sucked me in like this. I started collecting in december last year and am only starting to get off the ground now. To lose my new, and favorite, hobby so soon, just as im getting my "ducks in a row" so to speak, would devastate me.

Enough of the emotional drivel.


my question is, Dakka, what do you think Games workshops fate is? Are they doomed to failure? or is there still a chance to salvage the company?

To me, it appears to be in a death spin, about to crash hard. I firmly believe that another Price increase will officially sign GW's death warrant, and be the trigger that leads to their demise.

What does dakka think?

Disappear, hardly they are too big to fail (wink wink my American friends). How ever things are already starting to change and the naughty moves they made are starting to show their consequences. Think 5 years back, it was GW and GW alone the Miniature game scene, now that is no longer the case, PP has stepped up quite a bit and is now staring to take a considerable part of the market that was no one would have said that 5 years ago. Mantic getting to play straight into GW`s sole domain (army battles, both fantasy and now scify) that was unrealistic 5 years ago. Take a look at their last financial report, with a 50% overall increase in prices in the last 5 years (i think it was 5 years, its been a while since i checked this out) their sales $$$ have only increased 25%, meaning they have actually sold much less than before.
Things change, it will not happen over night, but with development technology becoming more accesible, it´s only a matter a matter of time before more companies get into the army size scene.

Odd One Out wrote:

what financials are you looking at? with approx. a 15M BPS profit, they are hardly going out of business. The problem that you see and complain about have more to do with their business practices than their ability to make money. They have the ability to make money are doing that quite well. The common complaint is that its cheaper to buy from non GW soruces than buy direct from the source. If GW sold their product to everyone for the same price they sold to their distributors, everyone would complain how they are killing their distributors and third parties. Its hard to find a balance between being a retail outlet and distributor.

Same ones you are looking at. Only he has a better grasp. 15M in profit is nice- except when you start looking deeper. When sales are flat and shrinking in various areas. "Well' is a realtive term, given some of the anaylsis by folks that actually have looked past the profit line, no their not all that well. They arent going bankrupt, but they arent as healthing as you think.

TSR floundered a bit, but found WOTC as a savior, just before the whole thing was gobbled by Hasbro.

How is GW failing?

5 million pounds profit last year, Dread Fleet looks like it's gonna sell out within it's first week of sale... company has paid off all it's debts.

Just because we might not personally be happy with the company, doesn't mean it's not still making mountains of cash.

I reckon gamesworkshop at the moment is being kept afloat by their hard core fan base however just because the company is making money it does not mean the organisation is healthy. I can see GW’s core issues being attributed to 2 things:

1. Confusion over target demographic. GW solely targets school kids with non disposable income yet core demographic are adults with a job (i.e. people who can actually afford the hobby outside of Christmas and birthdays). GW is also under the opinion that the core demographic will always be around to keep them afloat therefore enabling them to solely target potential future customers…at the expense of the core demographic.
2. Underestimating price elasticity of product. GW has always been able to charge whatever price for their product and people will pay for it however soon it will reach the point where the price is not worth the product versus other entertainment.

Considering this thread is focuses on GW’s ultimate fate I see either the IP being sold off (probably by piecemeal in an attempt to keep the company standing) or some sort of drastic change that turns the company around. Personally I’m putting my money on the piecemeal prediction.