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Biker Boss + Deffkoptas:

I heard of this tactic before, but wasn't sure of it's viability. Deffkoptas loose a modicum of maneuverability while gaining Ld 9 and still being able to turboboost. Equip them all with rokkits/buzzsaws and they might actually survive if you take 5 of them. Not sure if their hit and run rule benefits from the Ld of the WB but hey that would kick butt, they could assault with the WB, disengage, and the WB/Koptas go after something else. The Biker Warboss would be equipped with Eavy Armor, Cybork Body, Big Choppa, Boss Pole, and an attack squig. That way you have a unit that has 15 Strength 7 CC hits per round/on the charge while able to shoot at a tank/transport on the way there. The deffkoptas will be higher than the WB on their lifted bases so they have better points of view to fire their rokkits. Any experiences? Competitive?

The usual reason and method I like to use is one deff kopta with a warboss on a bike... toughness 6 average unit with 4+armor, 5++ on warboss and all attacks are power weapons... they rarely lose combat

The warboss doesn't have hit and run so if he is attached to the unit of koptas I don't think they could do that. If the warboss isn't attached it could work though.

What G00fy said.

The only reason to do this is to pair a single Biker Boss with a Deffkopta in order to give the whole squad a 4+ cover save in addition to T6, and they can Turbo Boost together.

At 45 pts a model (for TL rockets) why not just go for Nob Bikers? The Buzzsaw is good for Kopptaz, but it's only S7 on the charge and more expensive than a PK.

well... 4+ cover for the warboss, though they ge tthe turboboost coversave for 3+ and both get it

Yeah still doesn't seem worthwhile to me, the Boss is best suited in combat, so you're either boosting or charging, rarely moving 12" and shooting.

I agree they look good at popping transports, but if you take Nob Bikers and give a few of them Kombi Rokkits with Ammo Runts (8 point investment per nob?) they can do the exact same thing.

nob bikerz are amazing... but i usually don't want to put them with a warboss on a bike w/ pk... simple fact is they are nice, but the warboss can kill almost anythign on its own, the nobz can kill almost anythign on thier own ... why combine

its liek putting ghaz with a unit of 4 meganobz, sure its gonna stomp most things in cc but its not really necessary and overkill.

honestly my reaosning for running 1 single warboss on a biek with the deffkopta w/buzzsaw (usually not including rokkit launcher as you're right they never shoot, its turbo boost or charge) is simple. warboss lets me take nobz as a troop choice which means I cna then usually mix in a 2nd group of nob bikes and 2 groups of lootas to fill out elites and 1 troop. the warboss is then a bit overkill to add to anytihng that makes sence to attach him to... so use one single fast attack slot for a deff copta w/ buzzsaw and other 2 for rokkit buggies. throw in a kff and a couple BW w/ boyz to boot and you have yourself a pretty nice little list, has its weaknesses but the deffkopta/ warboss bike kombo is pretty useful in mroe cases... that is just the first example where i tried it and LOVED it

More Dakka wrote:Yeah still doesn't seem worthwhile to me, the Boss is best suited in combat, so you're either boosting or charging, rarely moving 12" and shooting.

I agree they look good at popping transports, but if you take Nob Bikers and give a few of them Kombi Rokkits with Ammo Runts (8 point investment per nob?) they can do the exact same thing.

The point isn't to keep them together, just to move up the field with a greater degree of survivability. Turbo-boost a majority T6 unit up the field on turn one if there's no scout strike available, and break them apart on turn two to deal with respective targets that each are advantageously equipped to deal with.

Forgot to ask this before, how do they count as majority T6? Is majority counted by wounds or number of models?

If you get T1 when do they not get to scout, other than DoW deployment?

My experience has been that if you get the first turn Kopptaz generally get where they need to be T1 with their scout move plus normal 12" movement (starting 12" forward, 24" turboboost scout move, 12" regular move).

If you don't get T1 then outflanking seems to be a better alternative.

Just my 2 cents, I'm always keen on odd-ball set ups for my Orks.

toughness is average tougness rounded up. so for 2 models you use the higher models toughness, with 3 models it'd drop to toughness 5. at toughness 6 str 4 would only even wound on a 6 , and str 7 only on a 3+

So it would be a squad of 1 Koppta and 1 WB?

More Dakka wrote:Forgot to ask this before, how do they count as majority T6? Is majority counted by wounds or number of models?

If you get T1 when do they not get to scout, other than DoW deployment?

My experience has been that if you get the first turn Kopptaz generally get where they need to be T1 with their scout move plus normal 12" movement (starting 12" forward, 24" turboboost scout move, 12" regular move).

If you don't get T1 then outflanking seems to be a better alternative.

Just my 2 cents, I'm always keen on odd-ball set ups for my Orks.

Greetings. In answer to your questions:

1. Models determine majority toughness, rounded up. So a unit of one T4 model and one T6 model is majority T6. As a defender, when the attacker is rolling to wound, they must roll to wound T6. However, for wound allocation, you still treat your models as their true toughness. So a STR8 hit/wound would still instant-kill a deffkopta, but not an attached warboss.

2. You asked when a deffkopta wouldn't get to scout if the Ork player were going first (except via Dawn of War). They can - what they may not be able to do is "scout strike." For example, if the enemy has surrounded his vehicles with infantry, then you won't be able to scout up, then move in for a shot and assault. Servo-skulls also prevent scout moves from being taken near them, and your opponent can wall off your scouts. In fact, they could literally block off your deployment zone with a few of them so that you can't scout out of your deployment zone. Of they could just prevent you from going past midfield, or one of several options.

3. Outflanking vs. deployment: It heavily depends on the army you're playing against, and the list you're using, and if relevant - how your opponent deploys.

More Dakka wrote:So it would be a squad of 1 Koppta and 1 WB?

yessir, one kopta 1 warboss for T6

Take a squad of 5 coptas for a turn 1 assault with the warboss.

You can scout the coptas to 12" away. Turn 1, you move warboss 12" toward enemies, then move the coptas so they are in coherency with da boss and in assault range of an enemy. Try to pick a target that won't put too many wounds on the coptas because the boss won't be able to attack unless someone piles into him.

Biker Warboss: Unit Type: Bikes

Deffkoptas: Unit Type: Jetbikes

You can't mix unit types with Independent Characters.

Nothing in the independent character section of the main rule book says that an IC must be of the same type as the unit joins.

Page 48 of the main rule book has the relevant rules on Independent characters joining and leaving a unit. You could even join a warbiker boss to an infantry squad. Though the unit would move at the speed of the slowest model (pg 48, right hand column, second bullet point).

Your Friend Doctor Robert wrote:Biker Warboss: Unit Type: Bikes

Deffkoptas: Unit Type: Jetbikes

You can't mix unit types with Independent Characters.

There is no such rule.

Your Friend Doctor Robert wrote:Biker Warboss: Unit Type: Bikes

Deffkoptas: Unit Type: Jetbikes

You can't mix unit types with Independent Characters.

as stated above you can, they just move as slow as the slowest character.

just liek you can attack ghaz in megaarmor to a group of boys, the boys just now have slow and purposful

I hope in 6th they make it where they move however far they canmove, but have to keep coherancy... that'd be a better way to handle it imo but thats probably a discussion for proposed rules

Thanks for clarifying Dash, I guess I never run into these restrictions to scout moves in my local meta (other than DoW, but the people I play with universally hate this deployment).

Thaylen wrote:Take a squad of 5 coptas for a turn 1 assault with the warboss.

You can scout the coptas to 12" away. Turn 1, you move warboss 12" toward enemies, then move the coptas so they are in coherency with da boss and in assault range of an enemy. Try to pick a target that won't put too many wounds on the coptas because the boss won't be able to attack unless someone piles into him.

Ok here is another thing making me go doesn't a unit lose a USR if an IC that joins it doesn't have it?

Likewise, would the Bikerboss give the unit of Kopptaz his Exhaust cloud rule or would he himself just not be able to use it provided he was not the majority model in the unit?

I'm liking the concept of this the more I read about it, but these rule conflicts keep making me second guess it.

More Dakka wrote:Thanks for clarifying Dash, I guess I never run into these restrictions to scout moves in my local meta (other than DoW, but the people I play with universally hate this deployment).

Thaylen wrote:Take a squad of 5 coptas for a turn 1 assault with the warboss.

You can scout the coptas to 12" away. Turn 1, you move warboss 12" toward enemies, then move the coptas so they are in coherency with da boss and in assault range of an enemy. Try to pick a target that won't put too many wounds on the coptas because the boss won't be able to attack unless someone piles into him.

Ok here is another thing making me go doesn't a unit lose a USR if an IC that joins it doesn't have it?

Likewise, would the Bikerboss give the unit of Kopptaz his Exhaust cloud rule or would he himself just not be able to use it provided he was not the majority model in the unit?

I'm liking the concept of this the more I read about it, but these rule conflicts keep making me second guess it.

negative, usr only apply to the unit, the warboss on a biek does not gain the ability to scout, nor does the warbike exhaust cloud extend to the koptas... though they can all turboboost for a 3+ save as they share that usr

add* the way he describes though if i am reading correctly and you turboboost the koptas scout move to meet the warboss where he will move then everythign has a cover save when the warboss meets them and joins via coherancy

G00fySmiley wrote:

More Dakka wrote:Thanks for clarifying Dash, I guess I never run into these restrictions to scout moves in my local meta (other than DoW, but the people I play with universally hate this deployment).

Thaylen wrote:Take a squad of 5 coptas for a turn 1 assault with the warboss.

You can scout the coptas to 12" away. Turn 1, you move warboss 12" toward enemies, then move the coptas so they are in coherency with da boss and in assault range of an enemy. Try to pick a target that won't put too many wounds on the coptas because the boss won't be able to attack unless someone piles into him.

Ok here is another thing making me go doesn't a unit lose a USR if an IC that joins it doesn't have it?

Likewise, would the Bikerboss give the unit of Kopptaz his Exhaust cloud rule or would he himself just not be able to use it provided he was not the majority model in the unit?

I'm liking the concept of this the more I read about it, but these rule conflicts keep making me second guess it.

negative, usr only apply to the unit, the warboss on a biek does not gain the ability to scout, nor does the warbike exhaust cloud extend to the koptas... though they can all turboboost for a 3+ save as they share that usr

add* the way he describes though if i am reading correctly and you turboboost the koptas scout move to meet the warboss where he will move then everythign has a cover save when the warboss meets them and joins via coherancy

I may not have clarified. Sorry about that. The Warboss, not being able to scout would either start out alone (bad Idea) or start attached to one of the boyz squads you no doubt brought as a competent ork player. For the scout move the deffcoptas (currently by themselves) will scout to midfield. On your turn 1 (you should only really be doing this if you get first turn), you move the coptas to where they can assault some infantry (something that won't break and won't kill coptas easily like an infantry platoon) and you move the warboss up the field to get in coherency (nobody should be turbo boosting at this point) You then assault with the combined unit. The warboss will not strike in the first round of combat (unless the enemy wants to pile into a warboss that they won't have to). The idea is that the boss is in combat on turn one, safe from enemy shooting.

This shouldn't be an everygame tactic, but every now and then an opportunity may present itself.