Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I just started running a big Kan Wall with 9 Kans and 2 Dreads. I absolutely love the army list and have been having alot of fun and success with it, but my major issue to trying to keep my two Big Meks with KFF alive or being more useful that simply providing the shield. They both are nestled in separate 30 boy squads and usually are set-up in the 2nd or 3rd "row" of the mob in order to keep them within KFF range of all the walkers.

There they are safe as they march up the field until I hit melee combat and charge those mobs into the enemy. (usually sluggas because I simply lack the models for shootas atm) Every time the enemy simply picks out the IC and puts as many attacks his way and kills the Big Mek usually in the first round of the assault. Stat wise the Big Mek is basically a glorified Nob, and I've tried many different wargear configurations from eavy armor, cybork, PK, Burna, Attack Squig, but nothing seems to make them powerful enough to survive extended combat.

I've been trying recently to be kinda weedy and have him hang back the Movement phase before a big charge, so that he physically cannot be in base to base in the first round of combat, but it doesn't feel Orky at all. Any advice out there?

My advice would be to either continue "being weedy" or have him detach in the movement phase and not assault at all.

of course, unless your opponent is stretched out all over the board, once the boyz are getting stuck in, you dont really need the KFF for much longer.

have him drive around in a battle wagon. You can measure the kff range from the hull, so its bigger than it is when footslogging. Add some burnas to the wagon, and lay the flame-template on as many models as posible, then multiply with the number of burnas. Yeah! 5 hits with the template, 10 burnas in the wagon; 50 s4 ap5 hits. Bam. nobody survives that!

I'd rather have my bigmek with boyz, so my opponent has to decide between three dangerous wagons (nobz, kff, burnaz) rather than two (nobz, burnaz).

That said, my bigmek never leaves his wagon unless it gets destroyed. If it does, he moves to another ride. He always dies in CC, so no point in getting him there. having him 6" away from the closest enemy model is probably the best chance for footsloggers. Maybe even have him Waagh! "da uvva way" to keep him away. The KFF will do much more than his four attacks, no matter the weapon.

kowbasher wrote:I just started running a big Kan Wall with 9 Kans and 2 Dreads. I absolutely love the army list and have been having alot of fun and success with it, but my major issue to trying to keep my two Big Meks with KFF alive or being more useful that simply providing the shield. They both are nestled in separate 30 boy squads and usually are set-up in the 2nd or 3rd "row" of the mob in order to keep them within KFF range of all the walkers.

There they are safe as they march up the field until I hit melee combat and charge those mobs into the enemy. (usually sluggas because I simply lack the models for shootas atm) Every time the enemy simply picks out the IC and puts as many attacks his way and kills the Big Mek usually in the first round of the assault. Stat wise the Big Mek is basically a glorified Nob, and I've tried many different wargear configurations from eavy armor, cybork, PK, Burna, Attack Squig, but nothing seems to make them powerful enough to survive extended combat.

I've been trying recently to be kinda weedy and have him hang back the Movement phase before a big charge, so that he physically cannot be in base to base in the first round of combat, but it doesn't feel Orky at all. Any advice out there?

You've got the right idea. During "defenders react" Independent characters will push models out of the way to get into base contact - so if your Orks get assaulted and your Big Mek is within 6" of the models in combat, he's forced to get into base-to-base.

This has no application to YOU assaulting however. Remember that when you assault in, you move closest to closest, and then any order that you can such that everyone who can get into base does while keeping coherency with an already moved model. There's no requirement there for you to get your Big Mek into base contact.

I also think that you're being oversensitive about what is and isn't orky. Ghazghkull Thraka knows when to retreat - it's why he's still alive. Gork and Mork whisper in his head and give him cunnin'. Is it so strange that you and your Big Mek are also in tune with Gork and Mork? Just because most Orks are stupid and led by feeble-minded warbosses doesn't mean that all Orks are, nor that you should be.

Crafty and cunnin'.

I've ran a BW blitz for the last year and a half and switched to Kan Wall for a change of pace. So I am well aware of the awesomeness of burnas in a BW! This army was built to be the complete opposite of my comfort zone (BW blitz, KoS) so I am avoiding wagons and trukks in the list.

@Dash I never actually realized the amount of IC kiting you could pull off when you get the charge. I'll take your advice and re-think my orky thinking. I'll try being more cunningly brutal than brutally cunning!

Thanks guys for the advice!

Nah you should play gork-like.

See, everyone thinks Gork is brutal, yet cunnin', and Mork is cunnin', yet brutal.

The way I sees it is that the most brutal, yet cunnin' thing you can do, is be cunnin' yet brutal, 'cause they is expecting youse to be brutal yet cunnin'!

(just trying to reinforce the cunnin' bit, as dash said, Ghazzy himself knows when to retreat!)

If you're playing a Kan Wall with 9 Kans and 2 Dreds, then you've got 11 60mm (about 2-1/2") bases up front. With 4" spacing between bases at maximum, you should be able to keep your opponent from being able to charge your boyz from the front. Keeping your Meks a bit more centrally located so that your opponent can't get an assault unit within 6" of him when assaulting on the side (keeping in mind, your Mek only has to have 2 out of 3 kans on the flanks in range to give them obscured), and now he can't force your Mek in on the first turn.

If you're assaulting, then keep your Mek at the back, outside of 6" of the enemy. He won't be able to reach, and thus can't be hit.

And keep in mind, if your opponent is assaulting your Mek's unit, then he's in range of assault by Kans/Dreds. That's not where most armies want to be.

In the majority of games so far, once the Mek is engaged, I've found I typically don't NEED him anymore. And many times, he's not a priority (except KP missions), because he's not a high damage unit in CC.

If you're equipping your big mek with a Burna or PK, take em off. It'll drop your opponent's targeting priority on him in CC. If you end up with a spare 10 points (for each), you can give em Cybork. The idea behind this isn't that it'll increase his survivability significantly (after all, it's only a 5++), but it'll make putting attacks on him less attractive because more attacks will be needed to kill him.

I was saw Heffling make thirteen 5+ saves in a row on his KFF in close combat. True story.

Heffling wrote:
If you're equipping your big mek with a Burna or PK, take em off. It'll drop your opponent's targeting priority on him in CC. If you end up with a spare 10 points (for each), you can give em Cybork. The idea behind this isn't that it'll increase his survivability significantly (after all, it's only a 5++), but it'll make putting attacks on him less attractive because more attacks will be needed to kill him.

I like the idea of taking the PK and Burna to make him a lower priority target when he gets stuck in. I guess that was my main issue for a few games beacuse I gave both Big Meks PKs thinking "Hey! Two PKs in a boyz squad is better that one!" I was so used to my warboss and his T5 that it caused me alarm when a Space Marine Sgt would just Power Sword him down.

Heffling wrote:
(keeping in mind, your Mek only has to have 2 out of 3 kans on the flanks in range to give them obscured), and now he can't force your Mek in on the first turn.

Is there a particular FAQ or line in the rulebook that talks about the KFF and squadrons? My understanding based on a few opponents I've played is that I if any of my Kans where not covered by the KFF I would have to divide the hits to the Kans that are obscured and those that are not. If I only need to cover 2/3 and could show proof that would give me a ton more room in my set-up!

The ruling for KFF and squadrons is the same as any other cover and vehicles- the majority of the squad must be in cover for the squadron to get cover. Once the majority of the squadron is in cover, it confers the save to the entire unit regardless of whether or not the whole unit is in cover.

The caveat in the FAQ about it is referencing the fact that having 1 boy from a unit in KFF range grants the save to the whole unit and people used to try that with vehicles.

-cgmckenzie

AS has been stated, once the Big Mek is in danger of getting assaulted, it means your boyz are in combat, which means your Kanz should be too, which means you win, and if you didn't win, you got your Boyz in combat, which is a moral victory non the less.

You've got the right idea. Keep the Big Mek in the 2nd or 3rd row of your Boyz when they're about to be assaulted. It greatly depends on your enemy movement, but sometimes you can position him so that he can't get into B2B.

Here's another trick that I use in my Kan Wall list. Usually I have 3 squads of Boyz. When one squad is about to go into Assault, during the movement phase I move the Big Mek OUT of coherency with the squad this is going to be Assaulting. Then, I will form a conga-line with another squad of Boyz to join up with him.

I do the same thing when one group of Boyz is getting shot up. If they're down enough Boyz that they're going to start taking morale tests soon, the Big Mek will migrate over to a squad of fresh Boyz.

In terms of Big Mek equipment, I give em the KFF and Cybork em. It does save them occasionally from Power Weapon attacks. a Burna is a great piece of equipment as well if you can afford it, but I'm usually a minimalist when it comes to equipment. Boyz before Toyz and all.

Jihallah wrote:Nah you should play gork-like.

See, everyone thinks Gork is brutal, yet cunnin', and Mork is cunnin', yet brutal.

The way I sees it is that the most brutal, yet cunnin' thing you can do, is be cunnin' yet brutal, 'cause they is expecting youse to be brutal yet cunnin'!

(just trying to reinforce the cunnin' bit, as dash said, Ghazzy himself knows when to retreat!)

It could also be said that Gork cunningly brutal, while Mork is brutally cunning.

after working with some graph paper, it "should" be possible to have all 9 kans, both dreads, and 6 units of boyz ALL within range of at least one of the 2 meks, and have both meks joined up with the unit in the middle of the back (the last one to make it into an assault) throw in a nob squad or two to protect the flanks with the wound shenanigins, and your gold! the unit with the meks would have to wait for a hole to form in your first wave before being able to assault.