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Ok, so once I get together my extra venoms and raiders, this is the list I want to play (to start), lots of troops and trying fielding a pair of marksman squads using Hex Rifles just because.

However - Which list is going to be better, and I'm unsure of where to shave the 85 points.

EDIT: Forgot to say - this is a themed list for a bit of fun and to see if Hex Rifles can do something interesting in numbers. I've thrown random ones into footslogging squads before and they've picked off a few targets so I figured what the hell.

I fully expect to do reasonably well against infantry and do reasonably poorly against anything with more than 3 vehicles.

Ultimately the main thing this time round is whether
2 squads of 4 Wracks with a Haemy in a venom to charge in to kill things, with 2 lots of 10 wracks floating around in a raider to Liquify what it can and charge asap,
or the reverse of
2 squads of 9 Wracks with a Haemy in a raider to charge in to kill things, with 2 lots of 5 wracks floating around in a venom to Liquify what it can and/or charge asap,
is a better choice. (though thinking on it now possibly the haem +4 is better for killiness overall?)

I realise my list layouts a tad different, this is because I use an excel sheet that replicates the old Army Builder program for units, then has a points list at the end (which this is from)
Key:
Unit x## {Number of models in squad.}
+ Item {Option added}
^ Unit {Upgrade 'character' taken. Replaces base model.}
> Unit {Dedicated Transport taken}
I.E.


List A
2x Haem w/ venom blade/liquifer w/ Grots in Raiders, 2x Haem w/ venom blade/liquifer w/ wracks in venom, 2x Haem w/ HR w/ wracks w/ HR in venom, 2x wracks in raider, 2x Talos, 1x Ravager



List B
2x Haem w/ venom blade/liquifer w/ Grots in Raiders, 2x wracks in venom, 2x Haem w/ HR w/ wracks w/ HR in venom, 2x Haem w/ venom blade/liquifer w/ wracks in raider, 2x Talos, 1x Ravager

While I love the idea of theme lists, this one has a huge problem: It has only 7 anti tank weapons spread over 5 vehicles. At 2k, the ravager and 1-3 raiders will go down turn 1. The others will go down turn 2. After this you wont be able to do much to enemy tanks. Sure, you'll still have the talos haywire blasters, but those will be target #1 after the tanks go down, and haywire weapons are only reliable if used in bulk, like a squad of wyches with them. This list will not be able to handle a mech list. However, I think it would do great against nids, demons, or non-mech orks.

Ouch. Okay, I don't feel like trying to go over this point by point, so let me hit a few broad strokes to hopefully help you dial in towards something more bankable for you.

1. First thing that leaps out at me and makes me not want to work too hard considering these lists is the errors in them.

- some of your point totals (I'll immediately point at the Wracks) are off, your math or whatever program you used is off somewhere.

- You also have some illegal setups 4 Wracks (or is it 3? I'll admit difficulty reading your presentation) can't take a Liquifier - you need at least five men in that squad, and by the point total I know that's not happening.

Stuff like that, cleaning that up so you understand where you really stand with some of these choices is a good thing.

2. Venom spam "works" because the Venoms are the anti-infantry and the Warriors/Trueborn are the anti-mech. You've taken a Venom spam list and shoved in Wracks...who are anti-infantry. That's why your list is looking weak, you've gutted the list's answer to mech, and to be competitive you really shouldn't do that.

3. Just as a personal opinion - the Hexrifle is, quite possibly, the worst gun in the codex. It's a sniper rifle that they took away from the ability to hurt vehicles (half the value of a sniper rifle) and in exchange gave it a minor ability to instaglib multiwound creatures...except the odds of that going off are miniscule. I'm amused that you're trying to spam them, and do wish you luck with that, but I caution that my prediction is that you're heading down a road of broken dreams to a destination of pain. You may wish to rethink that aspect of the lists.

Regards,
Thor.

Thor665 wrote:Ouch. Okay, I don't feel like trying to go over this point by point, so let me hit a few broad strokes to hopefully help you dial in towards something more bankable for you.

1. First thing that leaps out at me and makes me not want to work too hard considering these lists is the errors in them.

- some of your point totals (I'll immediately point at the Wracks) are off, your math or whatever program you used is off somewhere.
I think I fixed this, I believe it to be more my editing of it into the pointless format + being lazy and modifying the one list to both and missing a couple of bits led to them being off.)

- You also have some illegal setups 4 Wracks (or is it 3? I'll admit difficulty reading your presentation) can't take a Liquifier - you need at least five men in that squad, and by the point total I know that's not happening.
Ok fixed this. This is a stupid mistake and something I've chastised people on before myself, so I just made myself look like an idiot there

Stuff like that, cleaning that up so you understand where you really stand with some of these choices is a good thing.

2. Venom spam "works" because the Venoms are the anti-infantry and the Warriors/Trueborn are the anti-mech. You've taken a Venom spam list and shoved in Wracks...who are anti-infantry. That's why your list is looking weak, you've gutted the list's answer to mech, and to be competitive you really shouldn't do that.
I wasnt specifically going for a Venom Spam list, I just wanted more than 2 venoms + it seemed like the ideal delivery platform for my Hex Rifle squads. Though ultimately I could always change things so it's just the HR squads in a pair of venoms and do something else with the other 2 troops choices.

3. Just as a personal opinion - the Hexrifle is, quite possibly, the worst gun in the codex. It's a sniper rifle that they took away from the ability to hurt vehicles (half the value of a sniper rifle) and in exchange gave it a minor ability to instaglib multiwound creatures...except the odds of that going off are miniscule. I'm amused that you're trying to spam them, and do wish you luck with that, but I caution that my prediction is that you're heading down a road of broken dreams to a destination of pain. You may wish to rethink that aspect of the lists.
Oh, I know how slim a chance it has of getting that turn-to-glass result, but it's a bit of fun ultimately, unless the unexpected happens and they're somehow brilliant I don't imagine I'll use them for more than 2-3 games.
Also - I assumed the doesnt affect vehicles thing was in regards to the turn-to-glass and that it still counted as Str3 w/ Rending vs vehicles?

Regards,
Thor.

So fixed the lists (I think), fixed the points (I think), added a guide to how the layout works and changed the Aberrations Scissorhands to Venom Blades, and added better explanations. Now need to finesse away 85 more points.