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Why in particular does everyone think that Tau Ethereals make the army worse overall? ( I have some idea but it seems to possibly that people are... over reacting maybe?)

Partially cos I just got my codex and they don't seem that bad. May ultimately get one and run it just to be different.

They're easy to kill and they cripple your army when they die.

And they provide no real benefit other than BS 4 fire warriors

I ran one in a tourney last year. Gave him a markerdrone and 12 honor guard. hit with the marker several times ta give them bs 5. He never died all 3 rounds but just didnt do much to justify the pts i paid for the group

Tau have Guardsmen leadership, and the Ethereal is a giant target because of that. He goes down, half your army walks towards your table edge.

But the other half gets Preferred Enemy

Because, until quite recently, GW had no idea how to represent leader types in their games.

In both fantasy and 40k leaders were just grunts with more attacks and better weapons. It was only recently that GW started using things like combat tactics and IG orders to well, make leaders lead.

Etherials were an early experiment in this direction but GW still hasn't quite figured out how they should work.

So I've decided that once I've bought my first (maybe after my second..) Tau Battleforce - I'm going to grab an ethereal and field him, just for the sheer hell of it really

So lets get this out of the way...Tau are good at shooting, bad at assaulting. We can all agree on that right? Good.

So the ethereal provides a leadership boost to all units with sight to him. The problem with that is that those units need to be able to actually draw line of sight to him, which requires either A. he is out in the open or B. the other unit is out in the open. Tau don't like getting shot, so being out in the open is bad. On top of that the ethereal doesn't have a very good statline, so its not like he can go and beat people's face in.

So when the ethereal dies, the entire force takes a leadership check. Most Tau are leadership 7, so chances are about half your army is going to fail that test and run away. But, the other half get preferred enemy! That means they become better in close combat. Wait didn't we establish that Tau don't like being in combat? Um...yeah.

The only redeeming quality is that ethereals are allowed to take a unit of BS4 firewarriors, albeit at an extra cost. Thats pretty awesome, and Mal the Wolf apparently ran them to some effect, so its pretty decent.


There is one other consideration, and that is Aun'va, the space pope himself. So while normal ethereals have a decent statline, Aun'va's is just terrible. He has a Toughness of 3(5), and 4 wounds. 4 wounds thats awesome! you say. But then you realize he does not have eternal warrior, so anything with str6 or better (which is a lot of things) will ID him. Awesome. And instead of BS4 firewarriors, he does get (admittedly decent) close combat warriors. Fan-Freakin'-tastic. So our unit which we want to keep out of close combat, has no ranged attack. Perfect. Plus, the fairly useful leadership buff that normal ethereals give, is replaced with stubborn, which in comparison, is god awful. Great. So what happens when he dies? Well everyone who survives the moral check get not only preferred enemy, but also furious charge! Huzzah! our crappy close combat troops are less crappy, but still suck! Ladies and Gentlemen, I present you the worst unit in all of 40k!

It would have been nice if he say, twin-linked pulse rifles? Or made them AP3? Or relentless? But no, we get better in close-combat.

/

I'm going to make a little wily-coyote-esque shoot me sign for him too

I'd love to see a new Tau 'dex in the works. Ethereal XV8, anyone?

Kid_Kyoto wrote:Because, until quite recently, GW had no idea how to represent leader types in their games.

In both fantasy and 40k leaders were just grunts with more attacks and better weapons. It was only recently that GW started using things like combat tactics and IG orders to well, make leaders lead.

Etherials were an early experiment in this direction but GW still hasn't quite figured out how they should work.

This

It just comes with having an older codex than everyone else

tbh, after a while I'll quite possibly make an extended tau codex, along with my slowly-being-updated DE dex and the 'quin and mont'au codexes I'm working on, but that'll be in a good 6+ months afterI've got a better feel for how it plays.

I'll buy and run an ethereal because it's silly.
I mean, ultimately my tau's probably going to be built from 3-6 battleforces and a pair of skyray kits anyway, so sn ethereal will add some.. 'flavour'.

Feel free to run an Ethereal in fun games. I have never run one in competitive (i.e. tournament) games.

If you want to run an Ethereal, attach him to a full unit of broadsides with shield drones. Deploy them as far back as possible with appropiate fire (LOS) lanes. He makes the unit he joins fearless so the broadsides don't have to check morale and flee off the board (happens to me alot!) when they start losing shield drones to shooting. Also, watch out for outflanking units, etc.

I don't really play tournaments, its mostly fun games for me.
And I dont think I'll have many battlesuits for a long time, so broadsides are out, I'll be using a pair hammerheads for heavies (and possibly sniper drones if my budget can swing it). Tbh when gaming on a bit of a budget doing 3-4 armies (3-6 if you include my quin and mont'au when i get round to converting those forces up) is possibly not the best idea xD

KilroyKiljoy wrote:I'd love to see a new Tau 'dex in the works. Ethereal XV8, anyone?

I just felt a great disturbance in the force, as though all of 40k's fluff cried out at once and then was silenced.

PraetorDave wrote:So lets get this out of the way...Tau are good at shooting, bad at assaulting. We can all agree on that right? Good.

So the ethereal provides a leadership boost to all units with sight to him. The problem with that is that those units need to be able to actually draw line of sight to him, which requires either A. he is out in the open or B. the other unit is out in the open. Tau don't like getting shot, so being out in the open is bad. On top of that the ethereal doesn't have a very good statline, so its not like he can go and beat people's face in.

So when the ethereal dies, the entire force takes a leadership check. Most Tau are leadership 7, so chances are about half your army is going to fail that test and run away. But, the other half get preferred enemy! That means they become better in close combat. Wait didn't we establish that Tau don't like being in combat? Um...yeah.

The only redeeming quality is that ethereals are allowed to take a unit of BS4 firewarriors, albeit at an extra cost. Thats pretty awesome, and Mal the Wolf apparently ran them to some effect, so its pretty decent.


There is one other consideration, and that is Aun'va, the space pope himself. So while normal ethereals have a decent statline, Aun'va's is just terrible. He has a Toughness of 3(5), and 4 wounds. 4 wounds thats awesome! you say. But then you realize he does not have eternal warrior, so anything with str6 or better (which is a lot of things) will ID him. Awesome. And instead of BS4 firewarriors, he does get (admittedly decent) close combat warriors. Fan-Freakin'-tastic. So our unit which we want to keep out of close combat, has no ranged attack. Perfect. Plus, the fairly useful leadership buff that normal ethereals give, is replaced with stubborn, which in comparison, is god awful. Great. So what happens when he dies? Well everyone who survives the moral check get not only preferred enemy, but also furious charge! Huzzah! our crappy close combat troops are less crappy, but still suck! Ladies and Gentlemen, I present you the worst unit in all of 40k!

It would have been nice if he say, twin-linked pulse rifles? Or made them AP3? Or relentless? But no, we get better in close-combat.

/

this was awesome!!!

PraetorDave wrote:So lets get this out of the way...Tau are good at shooting, bad at assaulting. We can all agree on that right? Good.

So the ethereal provides a leadership boost to all units with sight to him. The problem with that is that those units need to be able to actually draw line of sight to him, which requires either A. he is out in the open or B. the other unit is out in the open. Tau don't like getting shot, so being out in the open is bad. On top of that the ethereal doesn't have a very good statline, so its not like he can go and beat people's face in.

So when the ethereal dies, the entire force takes a leadership check. Most Tau are leadership 7, so chances are about half your army is going to fail that test and run away. But, the other half get preferred enemy! That means they become better in close combat. Wait didn't we establish that Tau don't like being in combat? Um...yeah.

The only redeeming quality is that ethereals are allowed to take a unit of BS4 firewarriors, albeit at an extra cost. Thats pretty awesome, and Mal the Wolf apparently ran them to some effect, so its pretty decent.


There is one other consideration, and that is Aun'va, the space pope himself. So while normal ethereals have a decent statline, Aun'va's is just terrible. He has a Toughness of 3(5), and 4 wounds. 4 wounds thats awesome! you say. But then you realize he does not have eternal warrior, so anything with str6 or better (which is a lot of things) will ID him. Awesome. And instead of BS4 firewarriors, he does get (admittedly decent) close combat warriors. Fan-Freakin'-tastic. So our unit which we want to keep out of close combat, has no ranged attack. Perfect. Plus, the fairly useful leadership buff that normal ethereals give, is replaced with stubborn, which in comparison, is god awful. Great. So what happens when he dies? Well everyone who survives the moral check get not only preferred enemy, but also furious charge! Huzzah! our crappy close combat troops are less crappy, but still suck! Ladies and Gentlemen, I present you the worst unit in all of 40k!

It would have been nice if he say, twin-linked pulse rifles? Or made them AP3? Or relentless? But no, we get better in close-combat.

/

The only thing I find wrong with this is the very last line. You should have said "we get less horrid in cc, but still pretty bad."

KilroyKiljoy wrote:

PraetorDave wrote:quote

The only thing I find wrong with this is the very last line. You should have said "we get less horrid in cc, but still pretty bad."

Yeah I figure that was pretty implied by how many times I said that Tau are awful in close combat.

I anything in the Tau army any good in CC? I assume kroot are... acceptable? I really must sit down and read more of my codex.

Ovion wrote:I anything in the Tau army any good in CC? I assume kroot are... acceptable? I really must sit down and read more of my codex.

Kroot Hounds are the best thing in the codex. And they're basically Ork Boyz, but cost twice as much.

I hear Etheral's make great Objective Markers. Super fluffly, can be painted to look great. See not useless!

I would like to see a Broadside Command. Or a Commander that could pick some alternating Suit types, whether that be 25, 8, 88, 9 etc, I think that would be pretty fun; however keep those Etherals outta the XV armor.

KilroyKiljoy wrote:

Ovion wrote:I anything in the Tau army any good in CC? I assume kroot are... acceptable? I really must sit down and read more of my codex.

Kroot Hounds are the best thing in the codex. And they're basically Ork Boyz, but cost twice as much.

What's his face the commander is pretty good isn't he? He has a sword and everything.

Durza wrote:

KilroyKiljoy wrote:

Ovion wrote:I anything in the Tau army any good in CC? I assume kroot are... acceptable? I really must sit down and read more of my codex.

Kroot Hounds are the best thing in the codex. And they're basically Ork Boyz, but cost twice as much.

What's his face the commander is pretty good isn't he? He has a sword and everything.

Farsight? Yeah, he's a beast, but definitely costly. And you can only use him at 1500 pts and up.

They'll probably fix that... they did for everyone else.

Lets make the Tau good at CC! Yay......

Or make Etherals do something useful.

Yeah, like make everyone fearless and get rerolls to hit for everything within 24".
It could be called "inspired resolve" or something

Molten Butter wrote:They're easy to kill and they cripple your army when they die.

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m490072_99060113031_TauEtherealHandWeaponsMain_445x319.jpg

The worst offense is that they use bedazzled shake-weights as weapons.

Ethereals perhaps aren't so bad as commonly thought. I've used Ethereal few times - admittably just friendly games - and never he was a liability. I'm not that big on Honour Guard: whilst BS4 Firewarriors are fun, whole unit is pricey and regular FW's are actually more cost-efficient, plus Honour Guard are not Troops. Recently, a guy in UK won a pretty big tournament with Tau with this kind of list:

Ethereal - drones
Hq suit - drones
2x3 suits with drones
2 suits
2x6 warriors
2x10 kroot
pathfinders
2x Devilfish
ion cannon hammer head
2 broadsides + drones
3 broadsides + drones

I presume he put Ethereal on one of the Broadside teams. That makes a Fearless unit of 3 Broadsides with 3 or 4 Shield Drones. Very difficult to get rid by shooting, and to assault that you have to get through entire Tau army. And if you manage that, game is probably lost anyway and fate of the Ethereal is of no relevance.

Drones are great protecting Battlesuits from long-range shooting like Long Fangs or Psyrifledreads. However the Suits get easily demoralized if their cheap frisbees are shot down. Ethereal stuck in middle of your castle goes long way fixing that problem.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

Obrek wrote:
The worst offense is that they use bedazzled shake-weights as weapons.

Remember, in game terms those batons are just as deadly as a Marine Chainsword.

Obrek wrote:
The worst offense is that they use bedazzled shake-weights as weapons.

Bahahahahahahahaha you, sir, have won in life.