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Took a tour of dakka's history to go and find out some suitable ways to make the Heavy Bolter better but seeing that i couldnt find where someone suggested the idea to boost the points on the Autocannon (Might have missed it though, there was alot of thread to pick through) i propose...we boost the Autocannons points by 3! (This is of course, using the IG codex because i am not aware of balance issues of other codexs although this would probly be a good place to throw it in on)
Why change a perfectly good weapon you ask? To solidfy the autocannons place as a steping stone between the cheap single purpose dakkadakkadakka of a Heavy Bolter vs. the flexiable but expensive Missile Launcher!

soo to recap: +3pts to Autocannon.

No. This would mean that Prerdators would cost (lerts just say 10000003pts, although they are not actually), instead of 1000000pts, so it wouldn't be an even multiple of 5. This is one of the problems of Xenos codexes, is that the have units that cost, maybe 17pts per modal, in a group of 8. So it doesn't even out properly, so the Xenos player is always 2pts short.

king-newmic wrote:Took a tour of dakka's history to go and find out some suitable ways to make the Heavy Bolter better but seeing that i couldnt find where someone suggested the idea to boost the points on the Autocannon (Might have missed it though, there was alot of thread to pick through) i propose...we boost the Autocannons points by 3! (This is of course, using the IG codex because i am not aware of balance issues of other codexs although this would probly be a good place to throw it in on)
Why change a perfectly good weapon you ask? To solidfy the autocannons place as a steping stone between the cheap single purpose dakkadakkadakka of a Heavy Bolter vs. the flexiable but expensive Missile Launcher!

soo to recap: +3pts to Autocannon.

The problem isn't with the autocannon. The autocannon is priced correctly. The problem is that Heavy Bolters are drastically overcosted on many platforms (especially non-vehicle units), and missile launchers in the IG book likewise signficantly overcosted, especially given that they are 5pts cheaper in SM armies on better troops.

3pts is also an awkward adjustment for list building.

Wellll, how about 12 points for Autocannons and 8 points for Heavy Bolters? Thats pretty easy to balance points wise right?

Yes, but If I don't run Heavy Bolters on my Predators, I'm fethed for points.

king-newmic wrote:Wellll, how about 12 points for Autocannons and 8 points for Heavy Bolters? Thats pretty easy to balance points wise right?

Not really, if you want to keep it simplistic 10pts for Ac (or 15pts) and 5 pts for heavy bolter. This is the SW long fang problem all over again.

Supposedly they are cheap because they can't have them in Grey Hunter squads and the limited size means you are taking casualties on pricy heavy weapons right away.

Heavy bolters should be cheap or they will never get picked so assuming something near to Long fang pricing:

5 pt Heavy Bolter
10 pt Autocannon, ML, MM, Heavy Flamer
15 pt Plasma Cannon
20 pt Las Cannon.

Now I am not saying all should be suddenly allowed but they should all have the same point basis. And whether you qualify for taking a particular choice should be dependent on your troop type. (e.g. Heavy Flamer cost is correct but Heavy Flamer is only an option for Sternguard.) As far as tac squads, seeing you have to expand to 10-man to qualify for a heavy weapon I would 5 pt discount it. So for 170 points you get a heavy bolter, flamer and vet sgt. not 175 or 180 .

Well in the imperial guard, we got a problem with Heavy Bolters being 5pts as they step on the Mortars being 5pts also. Hmm, it might just be the Mortars fault for being ineffective though.
On a slightly related note; Heavy Flamers being 20pts for Guard...Really GW? Really?

Heavy Bolter/Mortar should be free. Missile Launcher 5. Lascannon 10. That's how you balance Autocannons.

MasterSlowPoke wrote:Heavy Bolter/Mortar should be free. Missile Launcher 5. Lascannon 10. That's how you balance Autocannons.

I disagree for dedicated heavy weapons teams but for squad adds to tacticals or IG squads free is not bad.

What if autocannons were 12 points and Heavy Bolters are 8 points?
The numbers are easy to divide, it gives a reason to take the heavy bolters over the autocannon, and puts the autocannon closer to the missle launcher but still seperates it as the missle launcher pays a little more for flexiability.