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This was just a list I made up for a game agianst a nids army that is coming up soon ., and I wanted to here Dakkas thoughts about it!

HQ:

Warboss-PK, BS, Cybork Body, Ard Armour, TL shoota

Big Mek-KFF

Troops:

30 Boyz-3 Rokkit Launchas, Nob w/PK and BP

30 Boyz-3 Big Shootas, Nob w/PK and BP

30 Boyz-Nob w/PK, and BP

30 Boyz-2 big shootas, 1 Rokkit Launcha, Nob w/PK and BP

9 Nobz-Painboy, 3 PKs, 4 BCs, and 2 with Choppas and sluggas (with stick bombs and ard armour put on some for wound allocation), and cybork Bodies

Heavy Support:

Looted Wagon-Burna, Big Shoota, Armour plates

Looted Wagon-Burna, Big Shoota, Armour plates

Dedicated Transports:

Battle Wagon-Deff Rolla, Armour plates, RPJ, Big shoota

Battle Wagon-Deff Rolla, Armour plates, RPJ, Big Shoota

What about the triple Burna boyz triple wagon and lots of Boyz?

How To Cleanly List Your Army wrote:HQ - Warboss, PK, BS, Cybork Body, Ard Armour, TL shoota
HQ - Big Mek-KFF
Troops - 30 Boyz-3 Rokkit Launchas, Nob w/PK and BP
Troops - 30 Boyz-3 Big Shootas, Nob w/PK and BP
Troops - 30 Boyz-Nob w/PK, and BP
Troops - 30 Boyz-2 big shootas, 1 Rokkit Launcha, Nob w/PK and BP
Troops - 9 Nobz-Painboy, 3 PKs, 4 BCs, and 2 with Choppas and sluggas (with stick bombs and ard armour put on some for wound allocation), and cybork Bodies
HS - Looted Wagon-Burna, Big Shoota, Armour plates
HS - Looted Wagon-Burna, Big Shoota, Armour plates
Dedicated Transport - Battle Wagon-Deff Rolla, Armour plates, RPJ, Big shoota
Dedicated Transport - Battle Wagon-Deff Rolla, Armour plates, RPJ, Big Shoota

Let's start with some notes.

1 - Battlewagons are open-topped vehicles, which means vehicle damage results are increased by 1. Armour plates in this case are almost completely useless.
2 - Battlewagons can only be dedicated transports to the Nobz, but there's only one unit of them.
3 - Looted Wagons are generally considered poor selections and it seems like putting a Burna on them isn't as good as just taking a Skorcha from Fast Attack. More reliable vehicle, faster vehicle, better gun. Thoughts?
4 - I feel like your Nobz should be fully diversified, for proper wound allocation.
5 - Special weapons in boyz mobz aren't usually very helpful considering the terrible BS of Orkz as is. And those sure as heck better be Shoota boyz.

Frosty Hardtop: I know that BW can only be Dedicated transports to the nobs. So what Ill do in the deployment is just have the Big mek waiting out side on the 1st turn , then just plop him in. I have to play with what I have, it seems to me that you think I have wide selection of models to choose from, and I'm not going to GW and spending $41-123 for 1-3 models for one game. Your also treating this list as a competetive list, which it isint. Im sure I just said I had a friendly game coming up. I do apprecatie your comments, but your saying them like i am some sort of... well idiot. I do know Battle wagons are OT without the ard case, and they can only be taken as DT with a nobs squad, and I would love to make my nob squad fully diversified as possible with Banners, kombi weapons, but I do not have those models, and proxieing anything over 30 points is a bit silly to me


InquistorVaron: I totally agree with the 15 burna and and 3 battle wagon combo, but I mist play with what I got, I am making a 3rd BW though ;D

Frosty Hardtop wrote:
3 - Looted Wagons are generally considered poor selections and it seems like putting a Burna on them isn't as good as just taking a Skorcha from Fast Attack. More reliable vehicle, faster vehicle, better gun. Thoughts?

looted wagins get the skorcha upgrade too? assuming no other upgrades, a looted wagon is 10 points dearer, has the silly dont touch dat rule, and cant reroll dang terrain like a skorcha buggy. nor is it fast. what it gives is 1 more front armour, and crucially transport capacity. you also have the options of a couple os BS'd or rokkits.

depends on the rest of the list and what you want to bring! personally, i love a looted skorcha wagon with burnas inside if you are lucky (and the odds are tacked in your favour) it will decimate nids.

without burna boyz though its defo better to take the skorcha buggy.

i think this list is lacking burnas however you look at it.

Frosty Hardtop wrote:
5 - Special weapons in boyz mobz aren't usually very helpful considering the terrible BS of Orkz as is.

im on the fence here. on the one hand, taking those out, as well as the BS's on the looted wagons would land you 65 points. that, plus dropping the second looted tank, would allow you to buy a unit of 8 burnas, or 2 skorcha buggies, which i think would be more able to kill nids and get the points back.
at the same time though, i think they would probably get their points back if you kept them, and would nip away a few wounds each turn. moreover the rokkits are giving you some anti-high- toughness that this list is otherwise fairly lacking (apart from cc of course but range is never a bad thing).

id also consider an SAG instead of the warboss for the template. a lucky first 2 turns would decimate his hordes. Even boomtanks i believe are viable against nids for the large blast template
getting rid of the additional shootas and rokkits would allow you to swap the burna on a wagon for a boomgun.

Rogueyopants wrote:Dedicated transports to the nobs. So what Ill do in the deployment is just have the Big mek waiting out side on the 1st turn , then just plop him in.

Okay you still can't select multiple Battlewagons as a dedicated transport for one unit. As your list exists, you only have the units to take one Battlewagon as a dedicated transport. You can fit a Battlewagon into a Heavy Support that you still have open, but you can't have it as a Dedicated Transport. Also, you can start with your Mek deployed in the Battlewagon.

I have to play with what I have, it seems to me that you think I have wide selection of models to choose from, and I'm not going to GW and spending $41-123 for 1-3 models for one game.

Your list includes 120 boyz, 2 battlewagons, 9 nobz, 2 wagons, and 2 HQs, which is like $500-$600 retail worth of stuff. That said, if you bought all this stuff, you don't have any bitz lying about?

Your also treating this list as a competetive list, which it isint.

Again, what were you asking for when you asked for our thoughts? I think your list wastes a lot of points that could be better spent elsewhere, and I gave reasons why.

I do know Battle wagons are OT without the ard case

Then explain to me why you think Armour Plating is worth 5 points when it does almost nothing to help you.

and I would love to make my nob squad fully diversified as possible with Banners, kombi weapons, but I do not have those models, and proxieing anything over 30 points is a bit silly to me

With all the stuff that you do have, you don't have bits somewhere (possibly from 12 boxes of Boyz) to model onto your dudes?

Seriously, if you're just putting EXACTLY EVERY MODEL you have on the table, then what were you asking us for?

I made a suggestion about models that would be better for you to use, I respect if you can't buy them. What I'm saying though is that some (most) of the upgrades you've taken are wastes of points that could be better spent.

Armour plates make Vehicle stunned turn into shaken, which means I cant shoot, I'd much rather move then shoot a bigshoota mate, A transport vehicle isint really good if it cant bloody move

You have nothing with which to kill monsters.

Toxin sacs should mean your painboy is useless.

Your looted wagons will be eaten before they can do any serious damage.

In general you want to back off and use ranged weapons. This means going for big shootas in your large squads. Also going for lootas.
It is hard to beat 'nids with a green tide list, which seems your list is trying to be. They will just out swarm you.

Build the best ork list you can and it should fair better against 'nids. That is assuming you usually only bring big shootas for your boyz and you usually have something to use as antitank/monster.

Rogueyopants wrote:Armour plates make Vehicle stunned turn into shaken, which means I cant shoot, I'd much rather move then shoot a bigshoota mate, A transport vehicle isint really good if it cant bloody move

And Battlewagons are open-topped, which increases the Vehicle Damage against them by 1. Ultimately, all you're getting out those 5 points, are if something attacks your battlewagons, and somehow ONLY manages to hit it ONCE, and only manages to Pen it ONCE, that if they roll a single 1, then you still only suffer a Shaken result. That's so unlikely as to make Armour Plates worthless on Battlewagons.

Frosty Hardtop wrote:And Battlewagons are open-topped, which increases the Vehicle Damage against them by 1. Ultimately, all you're getting out those 5 points, are if something attacks your battlewagons, and somehow ONLY manages to hit it ONCE, and only manages to Pen it ONCE, that if they roll a single 1, then you still only suffer a Shaken result. That's so unlikely as to make Armour Plates worthless on Battlewagons.

On either a glancing or penetrating hit, there is a 2/6 chance of not being able to move the next turn(barring a wrecked result from which there is no defense). Armor plates make this a 1/6. For less than 10% of the vehicle price(I run mine at 125 points typically) this chance is cut in half to 1/6. I use them. Either you survive and deliver your boyz, or you're forcing your opponent to focus more fire on the vehicle. If they immobilize your battlewagon, it can no longer perform its primary function.

thanks you brother T. Im still not sure if Frosty knows what he is talking about.

I meant to put the 2nd battlewagon in the HS slot, I just got in tuned with putting them both in Dedicated transports, thats my bad, dont see know reason you have go on the attack for that.

Battlewagon suffering a glancing hit from a regular weapon has a 3/6 chance of being shaken/immobilized/wrecked, Armour Plates make this a 2/6.
Battlewagon suffering a penetrating hit from a regular weapon has a 5/6 chance of being shaken/immobilized/wrecked, Armour Plates make this a 4/6.
Battlewagon suffering a glancing hit from an AP1 weapon has a 4/6 chance of being shaken/immobilized/wrecked, Armour Plates make this a 3/6.
Battlewagon suffering a penetrating hit from an AP1 weapon has a 5/6 chance of being immobilized/wrecked, Armour plates do nothing.

This is all after calculating the chances of being hit, the hit penetrating, and passing an Obscured save.

For instance, a Railgun shot against a Battlewagon has a chance to cause a Stun result (as in, a situation where Armour Plates would matter) approximately 1%(12/1296) of the time (4/6 to hit, 1/6 to glance, 3/6 to fail save, 1/6 to roll Stun result). This is of course assuming that a Railgun hits the front or Side armor, since hitting it in the back doesn't matter.

Alternatively, a Bolter Shot from a Marine has a 4/6 chance to hit, 1/6 chance to glance, 3/6 chance to fail save, and a 1/6 chance to roll a Stun result, resulting in, surprisingly, a 1%(12/1296) chance of a Stun result against a Battlewagon.

Personally, I don't see the value in it.

Oh, I know how probability works With the exception of those AP1 hits, the armor plates are reducing the chance of the battlewagon not being able to move by 16.7%. It's a matter of taste. I don't buy the warranty at Sears....I DO buy armor plates normally.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And a 110+ point delivery system with a nasty weapon that depends on movement is worth the 10 points for armor plates, IMO.

skipping deftly past that conversation, i thought id go back to the earlier comment by MFletch

You have nothing with which to kill monsters.

i touched on this myself earlier and its true, there are very few anti high toughness weapons here, and its a big ol' gamble to rely on PK's against Monstrous creatures.

looking at this list, again it brings me back to dropping 1 burna tank and 8-10 boyz and buying a boomtank with an ard case instead. i know you said models were constrained, but im assuming a small proxy like that is ok? (depending on what looted wagons youve built (link to pcs in the gallery welcome! ))

that gives you a big template and some anti m. creature so you arent sacrificing horde killing capability for high strength.

MFletch also mentioned the greentide approach...but there is no reason whatsoever that this wont work if you play smart and all luck doesnt abandon you on the day. i want to confirm, your original list is more than capable of beating nids, so its just tweaking here.
What i would suggest though, is that with this many boyz, the green mass is providing your "anti infantry", so therefore your spare points should be spent buying rokkits instead of big shootas. in this way (again deftly sneaking past everything that has been said) dropping the armour plates and big shootas should allow you to upgrade some more rokkits and increase your ranged monster killing potency.

Thats assuming that these models are literally all you own.

If you do have some flexibility in models or proxy allowance, i would recommend any of the following instead of the above unreliable rokkits:

3 kannon artillery
Rokkit buggies
Lootas!!!!!!
SAG instead of warboss

all of the above are cheap, efficient ways if dealing with monstrous creatures, topped by lootas

ps id still recommend some burnas for that skorchawagon!!!

i really enjoyed this battle report recently, on of the better ive seen, and it should show you a good mix of what to do with monstrous creatures and also how ork boyz fare against their nid counterparts.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3RmZ6kqkGs

edit: how could i forget!

tankbustas! no glory hog rule as no vehicles - a unit of them will make short work against monstrous creatures! proxy all your rokkit wielding boyz into a unit carnage