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Hey all.

My shop has been running a league for some time and the finals rounds are coming up soon. Normally I handle my own list building and it's served me well in the past but I've always played terrible verse Imperial Guard. I either mess up some target priority or get steamrolled on rules or I take too much or too little anti AV14.

My opponent has been using a nasty Straken list and he outflanks pretty much everything. He brings in a lot of power weapons and vendettas with triple twin linked lascannons and a few chimeras. He made an offhand comment that he may decide to forgoe the Chimeras for a ton of Leman Russ because of the mission we are using.

(2010 Adepticon Round 1. Primary is KP, Secondary is Troop Killing, Tertiary is Victory Points.)


So anyways... I'm pretty sure he's still going to go all outflanking even if he's using Russes. How do I counter that?

I have Eldar and GK's and were playing 2000 points. I dont have Terminators or Stormravens yet for my GK's. I have pretty much every Eldar model under the sun.

For my Eldar I considered counter-outflanking, and taking a bunch of War Walkers to shoot the butts of his Russes. Throw in a Seer Council and 3 Serpents filled with Fire Dragons and as many 5 man Dire Avenger units inside of Scatter-Laser serpents as I can take. Then just put those Serpents down in a way that I can possibly deny him a flank.

With my GK's I cant figure out a way to counter his outflank. I dont mid getting assaulted by power blobs with my Grey Knights, but I cant put nearly as many troops on the board as he can.

Please help!

I play Imperial Guard and GKs. So I might be able to help. Can you show me the list you usually run with your GKs?

what the heck are you doing making target priority rolls?

GKs I've never played against. But I despise IG because I have so much trouble with them too. I vote for eldar. kick his butt!!!

First off,

Thanks for the replies.


Stormtrooper: My GK list is usually like so.. I didnt want to post it because I didnt want this moved to list building.

GKGM with a lot of grenades and a Incincerator.
Coteaz

8 Psykers in Chimera
8 Psykers in Chimers
GK SS w/ 7 Halberds, 2 Cannons, a Hammer and Psybolt
GK SS w/ 7 Halberds, 2 Cannons, a Hammer and Psybolt
Purifiers w/ 7 Halberds, 2 Cannons, a Hammer and Psybolt
Purifiers w/ 7 Halberds, 2 Cannons, a Hammer and Psybolt
( Each w/ a rhino and 2x stormbolters w/ Psybolt )
Vindicare Assassassin
3x Psyrifle Dreads


I just dont think this list can reliably kill his AV 14 if he spams it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Doctor G: I'm afriad I don't understand you. I don't roll for target priority... I mean I have a hard time deciding what needs to be killed.

A small tip for target priority

make sure to dovote some fire to his command squad(s) to prevent them from giving orders to his squads

(guard orders are serious buffs)


also the thunder hammers are not that bad as long as you get them into CC with his tanks (most guard tanks have rear armor 10)

Eldar have a pretty good matchup vs reserve armies- especially if hes outflanking everything.

If you get turn 1, line up all of your tanks along one of the board edges so he has to either
a) come in on the totally wrong side of the board,
b) try to tank shock onto the board, and if you roll a 3+ dodge save he'll be destroyed.
c) turbo boost over your blockade which means hes not shooting at you.

If he gets turn 1, you just pop everything into reserve, watch his stuff outflank onto the board turn 2, then alpha strike the weaker side. Also hilarious.

The Autarch is really helpful vs Guard, as you almost always want to reserve if he gets turn 1 (to avoid vendetta + melta vet alpha strikes), and the Autarch prevents you from coming in piecemeal. Since he gives you either a 3+, or the option to cancel the officer of the fleet's effects

if it is KP he will likely gravitate towards more hard targets (bigger power blobs, russes, ect.)

you dont want to deal with blobs in cc, even with purifiers its unlkely they will pay for themselves and will be tied up for a majority of the game. A psybolt/stormbolter teleport squad should be able to put down horrifying casualties on these units, even normal stormbolter squads should be good enough to turn them into mulch if they dont have cover.

vendettas are an issue but if your dreads are in cover they should pretty handily win that gunfight since you ignore stunned and shaken. If you are very concerned maybe invest in some razorbacks.

lemans are a bigger issue, mostly since they can cause serious SM casualties and your marines are expensive these should probably be your priority, following that, command squads
if he only has one commisar in each blob squad, vindicare him then charge in with a squad or two and sweeping advance the squad

he should /never/ get off a charge on you since you can move and shoot with everything.

so again, the cruxes of your game with those VC's will be
1. eliminate his long range anti-MEQ firepower with dreads, razorbacks, and psycannons
2. make sure you dont get tied up by blob squads all game and whittled down by them
3. keep moving and whittling down his blob squads with stormbolter and psycannon fire
4. eliminate command squads, commisars, or other easy VC targets when they present themselves

Wow!

I got some great advice for both armies. I'll be sure to put up a bet-rep on how the game goes and I'll put a link down here tomorrow night.

I'm leaning towards Eldar but I might be short a skimmer or two. If that's the case I'll play on with the GK's.

Thanks everyone.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Question on the Vindicare.

Other than his round that wounds on a 2+.. his shield breaker and his 2 wound shot each require a 4 to wound, correct?

Also, does shield breaker cause a wound in addition to removing a ward save?

Thunderfrog wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Question on the Vindicare.

Other than his round that wounds on a 2+.. his shield breaker and his 2 wound shot each require a 4 to wound, correct?

Also, does shield breaker cause a wound in addition to removing a ward save?

Yes the shield breaker causes a wound, and the non 2+ shots wound on a 4+

both eldar (mind war) and gk (vindi) have the ability to target individual models and kill them, if you can eliminate the commisars power blobs are a non issue, they never win a combat unless VERY lucky and should be easily swept by either army

Flamers hurt IG blob squads really well, I have been facing IG the last few games and there defending center of table surrounded by difficult and impasable terrain (Swamp). As chaos I had no chimeras to move through the swamp and it became a parking lot from hell. Most of my marines died from artillery slogging in the mud for 3-4 turns and were then slaughtered by storm troopers in the end.

Yea.

I finally decided on the following list.

Eldrad
Fortuneseer

8 Warlocks, 1 Embolden, 1 Enhance, 3 Destructor, 3 Spears and a cheap WS.

2x DAVU Serpents with TL ELMs and TL S.Cat
3x Fire Dragons(5) w/ WS w/ TL S. Cannons
2x Fire Prisms
1x Falcon w/ Bright Lance and Pulse Laser

This comes in around 2k points.

I only worry I dont have enough Lance, and wonder if I should find points to add lances to the DAVU serpents.

This is a no brainer; Eldar do good against Guard, GK suck against them.

Eh. I don't know if it's that black and white but I certainly seem to see that Eldar modifiying the STR 10 and AV 12 curve have an advantage vs the army that tosses out more of both than anyone else.

I would run Eldar if I still had my all Guardian force, 2 falcon tanks, 4 5-man shruiken chain combat attachment guardian, 4 5-man meltagun chain combat attachment, 2 d-cannon squads, 2 war walkers, Eldrich and 2 squads of Harliquins. Ruins a IG army every time in the day its about 2,000 pts.