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Hello,


I will be attending a local tournament at my local gaming club on the 15th this month. Here's a general run-down as to what armies I can expect to see this time around.

Grey Knights
Blood Angels
Space Marines
Daemons
Orcs
IG
Dark Eldar

Please critique my below list.

Total Cost: 2000

HQ: Yriel, Prince
. . 1 Yriel, Prince

HQ: Farseer
. . 1 Farseer: Runes of Warding, Spirit Stones, Doom, Guide

Troops: Storm Guardians
. . 10 Storm Guardians: Flamer x2
. . . . 1 Warlock: Destructor
. . . . 1 Wave Serpent: TL Scatter Lasers

Troops: Dire Avengers
. . 8 Dire Avengers
. . . . 1 Dire Avenger Exarch: Bladestorm, 2 Avenger SC
. . . . 1 Wave Serpent: TL Scatter Lasers

Troops: Guardian Jetbike Squadron
. . 3 Guardian Jetbike Squadron: Shuriken Cannon
. . . . 1 Warlock: Embolden, Eldar Jetbike, Singing Spear

Troops: Guardian Jetbike Squadron
. . 3 Guardian Jetbike Squadron: Shuriken Cannon
. . . . 1 Warlock: Embolden, Eldar Jetbike, Singing Spear

Elite: Fire Dragons
. . 5 Fire Dragons
. . . . 1 Wave Serpent: TL Scatter Lasers

Elite: Fire Dragons
. . 5 Fire Dragons
. . . . 1 Wave Serpent: TL Scatter Lasers

Elite: Howling Banshees
. . 6 Howling Banshees
. . . . 1 Howling Banshee Exarch: Acrobatic, Executioner
. . . . 1 Wave Serpent: TL Scatter Lasers

Fast Attack: Warp Spiders
. . 6 Warp Spiders
. . . . 1 Warp Spider Exarch: Withdraw, Powerblades, Death Spinner

Heavy Support: Night Spinner
. . 1 Night Spinner

Composition Report:
HQ: 2
Elite: 3
Troops: 4
Fast: 1
Heavy: 1


The idea I have for this list is as follows:

HQ Placements
- Yriel will be with the Storm Guardians
- Farseer will be with Dire Avengers

Start
- Nightspinner will start on the table in cover
- 2x GJB will start on the table in cover
- Warp Spiders will deep strike
- Everything else in reserve

Game Plan
- Farseer will Guide and Doom Dire Avengers target
- Nightspinner will target clusters of transports or jump infantry
- GJB will start off guarding the Nightspinner until I've seen how the opponent moves, then will proceed to attempt to flank and pop transports, walkers, and light infantry
- FD will go heavy tank (AV12+), MC hunting or targets of opportunity with high toughness
- Dire Avengers will shoot up open infantry or hordes
- Banshee's will assist Dire Avengers (both their WS will attempt to pop the intended transport)
- Warp spiders will assist Storm Guardians (WS will attempt to pop intended transport with assist from FD transports)

I'm by no means set on this list, but it does seem to fit into the most recent tactica that I've read. (http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/402275.page)

Thanks for reading my post and look forward to any constructive criticism/suggestions!

your lack or fire power vs armor will be a problem if you encounter either in AV14 or in quantity of vehicles will give you hell. especially MEQ armies.

you FD will be free kill points from being your source of heavy armor hunting if they even get close enough to strike.

now yriel with the storm gaurdian? in assault they are marginal and if yriel doesnt get the job done they will get slaughtered and break he be better off with the banshees IMO and try turning the SG squad into regular gaurdians with a eml as they can camp objectives and you can give the lock the moral re-roll to keep them their. (because you said you are going on the attack with the GJB).

keep in mind with the way your list is set up you have to get very close to use your strong anti-vehicle weaponry and all the str 6 means you need 4 to glance on the side or rear not very consistant and no bonus on the pen table its going to be tough to take on alot of Rhino/Razer loaded armies the night spinner for your setup is a good choice though it still relise on low odds to due much dmg to vehicles. against MEQ armies your gonna have to concentrait alot of fire or risk alot of unit loss from retaliation

the changes i would go for
any WS that on the offensive take just the SC (saves points and still STR6 one less shot but saves points as you dont need the range beacuse those troops are getting close.

swap the SG for guards with EML keep them in cover/with objective in cover and lock withwith reroll moral drop the warp spiders either for a prism or another spinner (2 spinners in tandum will give you more coverage and better odds at slow them down. prism would give you more punch and a template for hordes

fillout banshees to 8 as IF they are helped by doom you can move odds to your favor

I would drop one of the FD squads for more heavy weaponry either a third heavy or another gaurd EML gives you some fire support a few big guns encase your dice dont want to give you some 4s against the armor and that way your not entirely dependent on suicide FD or near suicide spearlocks

to sum up basicly some heavy weapon balance giving you some more punch and not taking much of you overall strategy of mobile attacking

Thanks for the suggestions. I've made changes according to your suggestion, but I'm now I've got some points to spend. Please see below for the new list.

Total Cost: 1818

HQ: Yriel, Prince
. . 1 Yriel, Prince

HQ: Farseer
. . 1 Farseer: Runes of Warding, Spirit Stones, Doom, Guide

Troops: Guardians (12#, 250 pts)
. . 10 Guardians
. . . . 1 Warlock: Embolden
. . . . 1 Weapon Platform: Missile Launcher
. . . . 1 Wave Serpent: TL Missile Launchers

Troops: Dire Avengers (10#, 240 pts)
. . 8 Dire Avengers
. . . . 1 Dire Avenger Exarch: Bladestorm, 2 Avenger SC
. . . . 1 Wave Serpent: TL Shuriken Cannons

Troops: Guardian Jetbike Squadron (4#, 129 pts)
. . 3 Guardian Jetbike Squadron:Shuriken Cannon x1
. . . . 1 Warlock: Embolden, Eldar Jetbike, Singing Spear

Troops: Guardian Jetbike Squadron (4#, 129 pts)
. . 3 Guardian Jetbike Squadron:Shuriken Cannon x1
. . . . 1 Warlock: Embolden, Eldar Jetbike, Singing Spear

Elite: Fire Dragons (6#, 180 pts)
. . 5 Fire Dragons
. . . . 1 Wave Serpent: TL Shuriken Cannons

Elite: Howling Banshees (9#, 255 pts)
. . 7 Howling Banshees
. . . . 1 Howling Banshee Exarch: Acrobatic, Executioner
. . . . 1 Wave Serpent: TL Shuriken Cannons

Heavy Support: Night Spinner
. . 1 Night Spinner

Heavy Support: Fire Prism
. . 1 Fire Prism

Heavy Support: Fire Prism
. . 1 Fire Prism


Composition Report:
HQ: 2 (1 - 2)
Elite: 2 (0 - 3)
Troops: 4 (2 - 6)
Fast: 0 (0 - 3)
Heavy: 3 (0 - 3)

HQ Placements
- Yriel will be with the Banshee
- Farseer will be with Dire Avengers

Start
- Nightspinner and Fire Prisms will start on the table in cover
- 2x GJB will start on the table in cover
- Everything else in reserve

Game Plan
- Farseer will Guide and Doom Dire Avengers target
- Nightspinner will target clusters of transports or jump infantry
- Fireprisms will target tanks, walkers, heavy infantry, hordes
- GJB will start off guarding the Nightspinner until I've seen how the opponent moves, then will proceed to attempt to flank and pop transports, walkers, and light infantry
- FD will go heavy tank (AV12+), MC hunting or targets of opportunity with high toughness
- Dire Avengers will shoot up open infantry or hordes
- Banshee's will assist Dire Avengers (both their WS will attempt to pop the intended transport)
- Guardian defenders will stay in cover and fire their ML at tanks or hordes

How does this look now? What should I fill in the other hundred or so points? Would the Guardian Defenders with a ML walking to start off be a good idea?.

I was thinking of
- 10 Guardian Defenders with ML on foot to start off on the table in cover
- Spirit Stones on all 4 Wave Serpants

This will bring the list to 2000pts.

Thanks!

Goddamn it atlas.

First of all scatter lasers are MORE effective against av 10 and 11 than a missile or bright lance. I went through the math hammer in my tactica now posted in the tactics forum.

Second of all a single shot weapon on bs3 guardians for camping an objective when he has 2 gjb squads which specialize on snagging objectives is ridiculous.
storm guardians are one of the best mechanized troops we have and you advise pulling them for one of the worst...

As to the op, I think the only real problem with your first list was including both banshees and spiders. Drop one or the other and use leftover points in heavy support.

Since you say this is a tournament, strictly speaking you'd be better off with DAVU (5 man Dire Avenger Squads to make a Tank Scoring). However you said its a local tournament, and friendly, so your troop configurations are fine.

I would warn you about Yriel. There is a lot that he can do, and there is a lot that he can't do. Remember hes also a ton of points for what is essentially an Autarch with some added benefits. Hes still very vulnerable to instant death, and he still has limited assault capabilities. That said, he can do some cool things. Doom combined with eye of wraith will slaughter an entire MEQ squad and he has a pretty bad ass weapon. Hes also deadly efficient at finishing of MCs, and he can strike simultaneous with Mephiston- of course he'll probably die in the duel. You need to be painfully aware of his tougness 3, and a still breeze with instant kill him. Anyway, ymmv. I've used both Yriel and a kitted Warp Jump Generator Autarch, and I prefer the enhanced maneuverability and saved points of the generic Autarch. The Melta Gun is better at killing tanks and infantry than the Singing Spear toss, and Warp Spiders really allow an Autarch to take full advantage of his stat line.

I'd drop the Guardians and Banshees and double up on the Dragons and Avengers. Don't think you need Yriel, in fact I think dropping both characters and going for Eldrad would work better here.

I might try this, shoot them to death.

Eldrad
5 Dragons Exarch w/ Fire Pike and CrackShot or Flamer & Crackshot
ELM Serpent
5 Dragons Exarch w/ Fire Pike and CrackShot or Flamer & Crackshot
ELM Serpent


3 jetbikes w/ Shuriken Cannon
3 jetbikes w/ Shuriken Cannon
Brightlance Serpent w/ 10 Dire Avengers Exarch/w Blade Storm
Brightlance Serpent w/ 10 Dire Avengers Exarch/w Blade Storm
Brightlance Serpent w/ 10 Dire Avengers Exarch/w Blade Storm

Naked Fire Prism
Naked Fire Prism
3 warwalkers w/ Shuriken Cannons (sneaking around)

Only thing I disagree with in that list is Naked Fire Prism; always get Holo-Fields, and if able, Spirit Stones. You can get a lot of these points by ditching the Fire Dragons Exarchs; 5 man Dragons are suicude units (damn good ones too) so are best kept cheap as possible.

Concerning your 2nd list: drop the guardians in the WS and change them out for more Dire Avengers. I would also change out yriel for another farseer and with your extra points upgrade the FD WS and the banshee WS to have star engines and SS and then get holofields on your heavy tanks. If you have any extra points put those to filling out your squads or putting SS on your tanks.

Besides that your second list looks pretty good. Atlas pretty much got it all besides the guardians.

before I edit my list, I'm curious as to why storm guardians are better then defenders and why I should take one over the other.

I've also seen discussions on putting SS and Holo-fields on the heavy tanks and running them naked. Why not run them naked as it seems pretty cheap to me. Also, would it be a good idea to ahve SS on all transports?

akaean - how do you equip your autarch with the Warp Spiders? Do you use them to assault? Do you give the exarch hit and run and powerblades?

Thanks!

Vehicle upgrades typically fall into personal preference. At 2000 points, I fit 10-11 armor 12 hulls into my list, but I skimp on upgrades. For the HS tanks, I like to ensure I get cover saves as I don't pay for HF and such; 115 point tanks is something I prefer. YMMV.

As to Storm Guardians
- I hold Storm Guardians in high regard. In a mechanized list they are often superior even to full squads of Dire Avengers.

What Storm Guardians have that Guardian Defenders do not have are Flamers. Guardian Defenders have Shuri catapults and can take a heavy weapon that fires at bs3. Storm Guardians however take 2 flame throwers, and their warlock takes Destructor.
Flamers are awesome because they don't roll to hit, so basically you only need doom, and you get to deny cover saves to things like imperial guardsman, orks, enemy pathfinders or guardians. etc.
So they already have better close range fire power than Guardian Defenders, and in a wave serpent they can get to locations to really light stuff up with their templates. In addition to being short range fire fighters, they are also the more competent in assault than all of the Aspect Warriors except Banshees and Striking Scorpions. This is because they have pistols, so each one is getting 2 attacks instead of just one. They shouldn't be in assault often, but their average competency in that phase can occasionally open up tactical opportunities.
Storm Guardians are awesome in mech, Guardian Defenders are very meh.

As to my Autarch, in my casual list I do run him with Spiders and a kitted Exarch. I like the fact that they get 10 i6 power weapon attacks on the charge, and that they can leave combat at the end of my opponent's phase to either escape from retaliation or shoot + charge again. They aren't very killy in close combat, but they make for a pretty good "bully" unit. You pick on back field things, then leave when scary close combat things come close. Warp Spiders can move across the board and springboard from enemy units really fast with their warp jump.(up to 2d6 hit and run, 12 inch move, d6 run, 2d6 assault warp jump) They aren't the most competitive unit, but I think they compliment an Autarch's Wargear options better than any other Aspect Warrior. s6 isn't lost firing into vehicles, they give him albative bodies to make use of warp jumps for awesome mobility, and they give him hit and run. I enjoy my spiders immensely, but they cost too many points to truely be competitive (240 points for a squad of 9!)