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Okay, so my shop is putting together an Apoc game tomorrow, and this is first time I will be participating in such a battle under the 5th edition rules. Upon examining the book, a very large number of oddities where the 4th Edition Rules of the Apoc book don't quite match up with 5th edition codices/core rules.

It seems that my group has taken to simply mashing the rules together, and hoping it will all work out for the best.

Some of my bigger questions are as follows:

Gargantuan Creatures and Psychic Powers - specifically the Hierophant Bio-Titan and it's 'Warp Field'. This right here is perhaps the biggest problem I can reference. The way it is being played is that the Titan has a 3+ Inv Save at all times, as per Warp Field in the new Tyranid Codex. I take issue with this, simply because a creature that hue walking around with a 3++ for everything bar Vortex Missiles is a little bit broken. Now, on the rules front, first of all, the book does not say that the Bio-Titan has a Warp Field, is says that it has the Psychic Power: Warp Field, which is no longer a psychic power. Secondly, it states under the rules for Gargantuan Creatures that, friendly or enemy, creatures of that size are not affected by Psychic Powers, friendly or enemy, unless they have a strength value. Warp Field, if it is still a Psychic Power, as it is listed under it's description, it cannot benefit from it, and if it is not a psychic power anymore, then it simply does not benefit from it at all as it has been ruled out of existence.

So, how is this played in the community at large? Is something as silly as a T. 9, W 10 Bio Titan with a 3++ at all times kosher?

Next on my list of random questions:

Skimmers, moving fast, and D-Weapons. How in the heck to these interact? D-Weapons specifically mention in their rules that they ignore Cover Saves, however, they also do NOT ignore the 'skimmer moving fast' glancing hits only rules, and do not ignore 'vehicles obscured' save. How does this work vs the current rules for vehicles, in that everything is now cover saves? Are D-Weapons defaulted into being super awesome against things that before had some resilience against them? How are they played?

These are my two big questions in general. They basically boil down to 'how does 4th ed Apoc mesh with 5th edition rules?'


- Edited by insaniak. Please don't use that word as a pejorative -

Technically, when Apocalypse was written, Warp Field provided a 2+ armour save and a 5++ invulnerable save. This is how I would play it, but really in Apocalypse you should have enough anti-tank weapons to kill it in less than 3 turns (and this is coming from personal experience with Hierophants).

It can kinda go either way TBH, especially if it's a new player who only has access to the new codex.

In APOC I'd play it all day long as a 3++

IIRC it was 2+ armor 6+ invuln. The problem is now, A Warp Field grants a Zoanthrope a 3+ invulnerable. Zoanthropes are the only unit (outside of 4e Apocalypse) that can have Warp Field. The easiest way to play it would be 6++ invulnerable as that would be RAI. I would definitely talk it over with whoever is spearheading the whole thing.

I know INAT FAQ has no basis here, but for reference only, INAT FAQ Appendix, addresses the same issue regarding the Malanthrope and says to use 6++.

6++ invuln is all it gets, nothing more. It isnt a zoanthrope so cannot get a 3++, so a 6++ is generous as currently nothing happens

Skimmers moving fast no longer makes everything glancing, so S : D weapons weapons ignore the cover save provided by a skimmer moving flat out.

It's still dominant with the 6+. Apocalypse is about fun, so do whatever doesn't start fights. If your opponent wants a challenge, use the 3+.

Str D weapons ignore cover. Skimmers moving flat out gain obscured, which is a 4+ cover save. So D guns ignore it. Effectively the only thing you get on D str weapons is invun saves.

The big bug gets a 6+ invulnerable save. It's rules and points haven't changed, it wasn't a USR that got a new definition, they just changed it in the Nid codex, and didn't take Apoc into account. You have two effects with a similar name, not a big deal.

As others have said, STR D sort of kills everything. Invul saves are the big exception. It makes somethings sort of silly, when a Grot Battle Tank shrugs off a hit from a Warlord Titan, but then GBT's are pretty damn silly in Apoc anyway. But so fun when you have 8 of them charging across the board.

Good questions though..

I would take the relevant rules from the relevant book. In so far as If you want to play Black Templars as per their codex specifies - I would take all the lame penalties and obscure bonuses from using that particular Codex - Not pick and choose how my Marines play using it and say, Vanilla codex as well. Due to aging, and poor cross-referencing of terms within diverse rule-sets.

YMMV - but thats my 2c.

PS - have a great gane