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I play Space Wolves and a buddy of mine plays Space Marines. We tend to play to the last man standing rather than six turns. This leads to the issue where he ends up packing a bunch of Assault Terminators with Storm Shields or a Land Raider. Or *shudder* both. I've been trying to do some Math Hammer to figure out the most cost efficient way of destroying SS/TH Assault Terminators and the results are looking pretty grim. The best looking ways so far seem to be running two full squads of Long Fangs with Plasma Cannons or a giant team of Wolf Guard with Power Weapons backed by Ragnar Blackmane or a Wolf Priest or both. Any ideas?

Don't even bother fighting with him toe to toe with TH/SS. He has access to null zone, you do not. He has access to Vulkan, you do not. You pay 23 points more than he does for the same model (with counterattack, but the point remains.) ...trying to fight him shield to shield will result in either you having a lot fewer shields, or a lot less support. While space wolves CAN make a terminator deathstar that will make all others wince (Logan makes things hurt.) yours will wind up costing more for fewer wounds.

You do, however, have an absurd counterpart to the tactical marine: The grey hunter.

Drown him in them. Bolt pistols and meltaguns from multiple squads followed by charges (If he went all TH/SS, definitely charge him with a large squad or two of GH. If he has half of the squad or more in lightning claws, hit him with rapid fire plasma or pieplates rather than charging in screaming.) A handful of terminators that cannot wound allocate do not react well to being shot up and then having 60 attacks flung at them. Particularly when they have a "I reroll a third of my misses and failed wounds." standard. Wolf guard doing the same thing are also certainly viable for doing this job too, although they miss out on the standard.

This applies to other things, if you have murderous hurricane, it goes right here. If you have a LRC, dump both hurricane bolters and the TLAC into them.

Bigger question is how to extract the terminators from the land raider. Got any tank hunting lascannons or multimelta speeders/pod dreads handy? Perhaps a combi-melta wolfguard bomb?

And if all else fails...Take a drop pod, and fill it with wolf guard carrying combi-plasmas.

Thunderwolves and Lords on Thunderwolves are the Space Wolf counterpart to TH/SS Terminators (in that they are your Deathstar unit, theoretically you could field TH/SS Terminators as well, they would just cost 70 odd points) and can actually go toe to toe with them assuming you give them decent equipment. They are also significantly more mobile which should let you decide when to commit. Because you have base T5 you don't have to worry about the S8 Thunderhammers like Nobz and other Deathstars do. With a couple of Storm Shields a big unit of Thunderwolves could take on a unit of TH/SS Terminators (maybe not 10, but if they are 10 strong they are walking). A Lord with Thunderwolf and Storm Shield can also do pretty well, he hits hard and also doesn't get instant killed in return. He won't take on a full unit, but could probably handle 4-5 himself.

If you don't take Thunderwolves you just have to focus fire on them until they die while avoiding them. Block them with Rhinos/Razors and if you have to feed them cheap units to buy yourself time. Las Plas Razors are a pretty good place to get AP2 shots, since it doesn't cost you effectiveness in other areas (Long Fangs should have Missiles). Otherwise bolter fire to trim them down to manageable numbers and charging in a couple of Grey Hunter units at once should do the job.

You kill Land Raiders with melta, don't bother with anything less. All your Grey Hunters are probably taking 2 Melta per unit, but you probably have to sacrifice the unit to kill the Land Raider as you are no more mobile than him (and once the Terminators are in your face killing the Land Raider isn't really that important). Scouts might do the job as well, people forget that they can infiltrate instead of their buffed Outflank. Park them in the road and force the Land Raider to go around, or your opponent to deal with them. Speeders are probably your other go to Melta unit. They have a big advantage being mobile and having 24" range (so 12" half range), the main downside being that they have to be screened or Deep Strike in if you expect them to shoot as they are very fragile. A more specialised unit would be Wolf Guard in a Pod with combi melta, but they aren't as useful against most other lists.

Because you have base T5 you don't have to worry about the S8 Thunderhammers like Nobz and other Deathstars do.

Thunderwolves get to worry about things like thunderhammers dragging you down to I1 for the next phase, and things like units being placed on the second or third floor of a ruin out of assault reach.

Instant death is calculated based on unmodified toughness isnt it? Their toughness before mounting a thunderwolf is 4.. So T 4(5) isnt the same as T5. Str 8 will ID a T4(5) unit. Is this not the case?

Thunderwolves modify base toughness, it's not a modifier.

kyranzor wrote:Instant death is calculated based on unmodified toughness isnt it? Their toughness before mounting a thunderwolf is 4.. So T 4(5) isnt the same as T5. Str 8 will ID a T4(5) unit. Is this not the case?

No. TWC is Toughness 5, not Toughness 4(5).

So their statline is T5? Thats pretty cool. And i assume 2 wounds? Otherwise ID wouldnt matter..

you mean you see th/ss terminators make it into combat???

granted i play gk but i have always found that weight of bolt shells is always the best way to deal with them.... (also granted, my space wolf list has 79 marines in it )

just rapid fire the be-jesus out of them and counter attack the inevitable charge (some plasma/melta/flamer wouldnt hurt as well).

though my th/ss marine termies did all die to 5 grey hunters that they charged last game

I'd like to think that I personally keep down the TWC yiffing population with my rep of running 3x POTMS Vindicators.

Blact Templars FTW,

If i were you i would shoot them, then shoot them some more. He will fail 1/6th of his AS so you just need to shoot allot then use plasma guns to off them quick.

Rain of Blades suit loadout is the best. PR+BC is the best combo against hammernators. Wait Space Wolves? Go Firetruck yourselves!

MrTau wrote:Rain of Blades suit loadout is the best. PR+BC is the best combo against hammernators. Wait Space Wolves? Go Firetruck yourselves!

Did you read the OP? Or just the thread title?

UNREALPwnage wrote:Blact Templars FTW,

If i were you i would shoot them, then shoot them some more. He will fail 1/6th of his AS so you just need to shoot allot then use plasma guns to off them quick.

This

Make him make as many of those 2+ saves as possible. He's going to roll some 1s eventually. Volume of attacks is key.

Here's what I used to do vs my friend who'd kill me with terminators when we played to the last man (lol 11 turn games!)

Im guessing you play 1000pts or higher. the point is to ignore the Termies and focus hard on killing everything else he has, especially the anti tank stuff.

Take 1-2 land raiders, assault terminators cannot hope to catch them, and LR's can move 12" per turn and still fire back with AP 2.

This obv doesnt work in standard games

take them out at long range

Bolters.

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Consider first that Terminators are no faster than any other footslogging infantry, second that if they're hammer-wielders they have no ranged attacks, and third that they're expensive. Shoot them to death with very large weapons.

It's a little easier if you play Eldar or Dark Eldar, since you're fast enough that you never need to get anywhere near the Terminators, your best bet is probably to shoot everything in range at them.

I agree with AnomanderRake: concentrate your fire power and shoot the heck out of them. They will fall.

Take Bjorn and 2x Dreads with plasma cannons. This will soften them up quite a bit, as I found myself.