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Can a rhino move 12"s and use its searchlight? Or is there a restriction that says if you cannot shoot, you cannot use the searchlight?

If that is the case, can a stormraven that moved flat out use a searchlight?

Im fairly certain it's done instead of firing normaly.

So unless it's a BA Rhino than no.

As far as the SR is concerned, no as a searchlight can't be used with PoTMS so it will be unable to fire. For that matter firing with PoTMS is not firing as normal either so ...

I'm going off memory atm beings I only have the BGB with me, no codices.

In order to use your searchlight you have to 'acquire a target,' so you can only use it when firing a weapon. The searchlight is used automatically if the target is within range when you roll your night fighting distance and is not used instead of firing a weapon.

A Stormraven would therefore be able to use its searchlight while using PotMS to fire a weapon.

JD - no, its used WHEN firing. SO you have to be able to fire (legally declare a target) in order to use the searchlight.

The searchlight effect happens automatically when an equipped vehicle successfully targets a unit (i.e. the unit is in range after rolling for nighttime spotting distance). See, e.g. Codex: Grey Knights p. 61. It's important to note that the effect isn't optional ("having acquired a target, will illuminate it with the searchlight." C:GK p.61, emphasis added). That's important because using the searchlight bears a consequence of being visible in the following turn. If your vehicle has a searchlight, targets a unit, and successfully spots it, the effect happens whether you want it to or not.


Hope this helps!
-GK

nosferatu1001 wrote:JD - no, its used WHEN firing. SO you have to be able to fire (legally declare a target) in order to use the searchlight.

Interesting, so a SR can Turbo boost and skip across than PoTMS acquire the searchlight target.
So the vehicle still Fires as normal? Or does it forgo it's normal "shot" to use the searchlight. (really wish this was in the BGB)

Yes, a Storm Raven can do what you've described. It does not forego the shot. If you have a searchlight equipped, illuminating the target happens as a byproduct of passing the "spotting" test described on BGB p. 95 during the shooting process. Just keep in mind that your Storm Raven is incredibly unlikely to survive the effort and probably cost a lot more than whatever you're lighting up.

Hope this helps!
-GK

It doesn't replace a shot. It just illuminates the target when it is acquired.

GiantKiller wrote:Yes, a Storm Raven can do what you've described. It does not forego the shot. If you have a searchlight equipped, illuminating the target happens as a byproduct of passing the "spotting" test described on BGB p. 95 during the shooting process. Just keep in mind that your Storm Raven is incredibly unlikely to survive the effort and probably cost a lot more than whatever you're lighting up.

Hope this helps!
-GK

insaniak wrote:It doesn't replace a shot. It just illuminates the target when it is acquired.

Man good to know, I've been playing this wrong for 3 years or so. All those shots missed from IG over the years.

One last related question. If you move flat out with a stormraven, and fire off your Potms, can you fire defensive weapons? ie mindstrike missles and hurricane bolters?

No, normal vehicles may fire defensive weapons when going combat speed and fast vehicles may fire defensive weapons when going cruising speed. No vehicles can fire defensive weapons when going flat out.

PotMS allows you to fire a single weapon when going flat out (defensive or not).

Blitz100 wrote:One last related question. If you move flat out with a stormraven, and fire off your Potms, can you fire defensive weapons? ie mindstrike missles and hurricane bolters?

No. You may fire one more weapon than normal, and Flat Out lets you fire no weapons normally

Just played a game recently in which searchlights were used. Since the thread already existed, rather than starting a new one, I've decided to necro this one because the subject matter is exactly the same.

I disagree with the intepretations here. Just because you have to select a target doesn't make searchlights the same as shooting. Night-fight is actually checked before you fire. It's a precursor to shooting, but that doesn't mean that it must follow the rules for a shooting attack any more than making a difficult terrain check when assaulting through terrain means that a difficult terrain check is an assault.

Just because you use it in the shooting phase and it has a target doesn't necessarily make it a shooting attack or have to follow the rules for a shooting attack. For a simple example, just take a look at Anrakyr's Mind in the Machine. Unless the rules state that it is a shooting attack, follows the rules for a shooting attack or has a profile like a shooting attack, it isn't. You don't check for range for the searchlights and you don't roll to "hit" the target. Just because it is used right before shooting (after a target is selected) does not mean you have to follow the rules for shooting with it. You only follow the rules for shooting for your actual shooting attack after you've searchlighted your target.

Select a target is step one of the Shooting Sequence, page 14.

If you can't shoot, you can't perform the Shooting Sequence.
If you can't perform the Shooting Sequence, you can't select a target.
If you can't select a target, your Searchlight does not work.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
To be clear, Searchlights say 'After the selecting a target, but before a unit fires' (P95)

P14 says
The Shooting Sequence
1) Check LOS & pick a target
2) Check range
3) Roll to hit
etc...

As above. The rules on this are unambiguous

pretre wrote:Select a target is step one of the Shooting Sequence, page 14.

If you can't shoot, you can't perform the Shooting Sequence.
If you can't perform the Shooting Sequence, you can't select a target.
If you can't select a target, your Searchlight does not work.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
To be clear, Searchlights say 'After the selecting a target, but before a unit fires' (P95)

P14 says
The Shooting Sequence
1) Check LOS & pick a target
2) Check range
3) Roll to hit
etc...

This.

This came up in a game over the weekend and that was the first time I had ever heard anyone treat searchlights as something other than the above interpretation.

You roll your spotting distance, if you spot the unit they are searchlighted. If you don't spot them, they are not and you are not allowed further rolls to try and spot with your guns.

My question is, if you searchlight a unit, do further searchlights illuminate your own units for your opponents shooting? It seems like the rule implies no but I'm not sure.

The rule in part says "searchlights are used when the night-fighting rule is in effect." Then if a unit is searchlighted, "for the rest of the shooting phase, any other unit that fires at the illuminated unit does not use the night fighting special rule."

IIRC, if Searchlight is successful, then any unit shooting at that vehicle doesn't have to roll for Night Fighting. However, I do not play Imperium and could possibly be wrong. If someone corrects me this post will be edited.

We have played that there is no need (or even ability) to use them in successive shots.

Right on, that's the way I have played it as well. But I had never heard of someone having a different interpretation of how searchlights worked so I just wanted to put it out there.

Dok wrote:Right on, that's the way I have played it as well. But I had never heard of someone having a different interpretation of how searchlights worked so I just wanted to put it out there.

The way the rule is currently phrased, searchlight use seems non-optional in Night Fight situations.

It is indeed; the rules are you use searchlights when Night Fight rules are in effect, and a "spotted" vehicle still has nightfight - just you dont need to roll for it.