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Hi guys, I've a game that I've been building for about 6-8 months.

It's still in its infancy, and it has only one finished supplement.

If anyone would be interested in playtesting this ruleset for me, Send me a PM with an e-mail to send the game to. [there are two word documents and an excel document.]

You will need decent experience in 40k to play, and will need to be able to devote a lot of time to the game - it is meant to be fairly indepth.


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Noone?

Scipio Africanus wrote:You will need decent experience in 40k to play, and will need to be able to devote a lot of time to the game - it is meant to be fairly indepth.

I think that is a combination of 2 statements that's killing you.
A Skirmish game that's meant to be "in depth" (which I interpret as "complicated") is an immediate turn off for most people. Especially if it's just in its infancy.
Add in that it seems to lean on 40K, and you've got the 2nd turn off. People looking for 40K alternatives are looking for TRUE alternatives.

Just my $.02.

Eric

so is it super detailed, like a cowboy game? If it involves all the little things like wounds in each specific body part and reloading weapons and determining exaclty what percentage of a model is in or out of cover that may be a little too much for me.

kind of along the lines of what MagikalMemories said, I would suggest that, unless you are pretty experienced at game development, you start with a simple concept. Develope the core mechanics first and add depth and detail as you go along. I say this from a background in historical games. My dad and I have been writing rules for years and in my experience, if I try to throw to much into a rule set at the very beggining it sort of ends up as a cluster.

So yeah, my 2 cents that I know you didn't ask for is, start small, develop something fun that works well, THEN add detail and depth.

I believe that a 40k based game is a recipe for disaster, why would anyone commit lots of time play testing a game that is never going to have a chance to grow?

Wow, lots of negativity here. I'll be the first to admit that "super in depth" flattens my interest and isn't likely to win you alot of support here, but if you want to work up a set of rules go for it.

However, know that it's likely that it will only be your friends who will play-test it. It's just the way it is with most home-brew games, especially complicated ones. It's also a good test for wider acceptance. If you can't find a local group to playtest it, that's a good sign of how it will be accepted on a wider basis.

All the best with the project.

NAVARRO wrote:I believe that a 40k based game is a recipe for disaster, why would anyone commit lots of time play testing a game that is never going to have a chance to grow?

Not entirely fair. There are a fair number of people working on and playing variations on Inquisimunda, and "in the name of the emperor" is getting something of a following.

Ssgt Carl wrote:so is it super detailed, like a cowboy game? If it involves all the little things like wounds in each specific body part and reloading weapons and determining exaclty what percentage of a model is in or out of cover that may be a little too much for me.

I see what you're getting at, but it still made me chuckle "Cowboy" games are not all super detailed.

Eilif wrote:
I see what you're getting at, but it still made me chuckle "Cowboy" games are not all super detailed.

Heh, obviously you haven't played the ones I have. but you are correct that the way I wrote it could seem all inclusive. I suppose I should have written "so is it super detailed, like some of the cowboy games I have played?"

I didn't mean to be as negative as I may have come off. I think the things that got me were saying the game would take a lot of time becasue it was in depth AND that it was in its infancy. I am certainly all for people writing their own rules. I just kinda meant to point out why he may not have had many/any takers to play test


To the OP, I do apologize if I came off as if I thought you were doing things all wrong. I am completely supportive of any gamers efforts to write their own rules. Looking back at my post I am not even sure why I threw any advice out. I'm sure you have it under control and it's never a bad idea to ask for play testers.

Ok, super in depth? The biggest problem I have with this idea is that GW kind of attempted this before in 54mm, called Inquisitor. It flopped due to lack of support (as is so often the case with GW specialist games), although maybe you should check it out first. If only to take some ideas from it.
That and the rulebook is a good solid read!

Wait, skirmish based game set in 40k universe?

You mean Necromunda?

I forgot Necromunda!

I think Necro is a great game, the problem is that people want to play their favorite armies, not another 'human' gang.

I think a 40k skirmish game that was about as detailed as mordheim or Necro would be welcome, but it would have to be robust enough to work with the codexes.

In my experience of playing a lot of the variant 40k skirmish games, what gets included in the game is often determined by the designer, with no basis in the 40k game. Eg one game allows all the bands to take a light walker. My tau playing friend could take a light walker, but not a battlesuit. Huh? Others change the way weapons work from the standard 40k, which I also think defeats the purpose.

There was the old kill team rules from late 3rd and 4th ed.

That would be a good place to start from maybe?

That would be a skirmish scale game that would need little adapting. And keeps the core of the mechanics.

After that you could add experience and detail, making it into a more indepth gaming experience.

Scipio Africanus wrote:Hi guys, I've a game that I've been building for about 6-8 months.

It's still in its infancy, and it has only one finished supplement.

If anyone would be interested in playtesting this ruleset for me, Send me a PM with an e-mail to send the game to. [there are two word documents and an excel document.]

You will need decent experience in 40k to play, and will need to be able to devote a lot of time to the game - it is meant to be fairly indepth.


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Noone?

It's called Rogue Trader. We already have you covered, chief.

You can use the old platoon/ squad rosters and make it your own. It doesn't need play testers, it needs support, and more people jumping on the band wagon.

Is there a legit way to get RT online? Or should I just keep praying it'll turn up in a second hand store. Also, rogue trader by FFG, is it a separate rpg game or a redux of the original RT?

If you keep your eye on Ebay it shows up fairly often and not terribly expensively. I'd also advise putting wanted ads at bartertown, TMP and here. I got my fair condition hardback RT for under 20 bucks and after regluing a couple of sections into the binding, it's held up wonderfully.

FFG's Rogue Trader RPG has no relation to the original RT.

I still advise anyone interested in this type of game to take a look at the various Necrumunda/ 40k hybrids out there that people have created under the Inquisimunda heading. Here's a good one.
http://empireofghosts.blogspot.com/

I wish the OP would chime in and give us more info.

Eric

My apologies. I'd given up on this thread getting any attention.

The game is not 'super detailed' IT isn't so indepth that you will lose fingers or have models who are unable to walk necessarily.

There are rules regarding health, but they're pretty basic to keep the game more simple. They mostly revolve around having a %health and having -1 characteristics for the fact.

Each gun shoots a number of bullets - A boltgun, for example has a clip of 12, and shoots 6. that's six chances to hit, and so many chances to do damage.

Instead of wounds and toughness, I have health. Health is simply T*10+W*100.

Finally, why the hell would I want to make a game that's not 40k based just to appeal to people? this game is a hobby rather than a chore, and I'm doing it all for free. I don't really care if people want to play or not, I'll still get it into Prime.

There are no vehicles whatsoever, and this is for a reason. Mainly, I dislike a full-mech army, and vehicles would be hard to implement in a balanced manner.

Finally, I said fairly indepth. this does not mean super or extremely indepth. it is indepth enough that at a large scale it would be difficult.

Any of you who are actually interested in looking at these rules rather than just picking at semantics, give me a PM with your e-mail.



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Ktulhut wrote:Is there a legit way to get RT online? Or should I just keep praying it'll turn up in a second hand store. Also, rogue trader by FFG, is it a separate rpg game or a redux of the original RT?

Also, what the hell is this? what does it have to do with the topic.


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I'm not trying to come off as angered (I am, I'm not intending to however.) But some of these questions seem a tad presumptuous and have put words in my mouth. I'm afraid to say that that has left me at a loss for a level headed answer to some of the questions asked.

Why not just post/link to the rules? Why so secretive?

If it was a new IP that you had the potential to sell I could understand, but not with 40k.

Because, it is two thirty page word documents, an excel graph and now four card-slide powerpoints.

Not even mentioning the fact that it is owned by a minor without access to things like dropbox or a means by which he may pay for said services.




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Also, I'm not looking to put in any money to this game. It is a free game, so I'm not getting any money for it.

http://docs.google.com/

I thought that's what Necromunda was... or 40K in general...

Scipio Africanus wrote:Because, it is two thirty page word documents, an excel graph and now four card-slide powerpoints.

Not even mentioning the fact that it is owned by a minor without access to things like dropbox or a means by which he may pay for said services.




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Also, I'm not looking to put in any money to this game. It is a free game, so I'm not getting any money for it.

Dropbox is Free? Also Google Docs as stated, RapidShare, Megaupload, etc.

Fine. I'm still not setting up an account just for this game. I'm not looking to use another game either. I don't care about RT or Necromunda, I've made my own.

Stop suggesting it. its not working and it won't help either of us out.

its not unreasonable to ask for an e-mail. And if you think it is, you obviously don't know why e-mails exist.

No, I'm just a game designer who uses GoogleDocs on a daily basis to write game documents with a group of people. GoogleDocs is not an unreasonable tool, and if you think it is, you obviously don't know why cloud services exist.

The suggest was merely to make it easier for people to test your system.

Best of luck to you.

The second line there is more directed to the 'Play RT instead dude.'

I respect the usefulness of Cloud, and I'm fine with why you'd use it. This isn't any more important to me than my painting and I don't want to have to set up yet another account [with google as much as any.] for the sake of reaching out.

Scipio Africanus wrote:...This isn't any more important to me than my painting and I don't want to have to set up yet another account [with google as much as any.] for the sake of reaching out.

OK, understood.

From what I've seen, wrangling playtesters can be a ton of work if you want useful info. They need to stay focused, run lots of tests of rules that are likely partially broken, etc. It's rarely as much fun as "play a bunch of games" as most of the games will end in a not-fun stomp for someone, or end abnormally because the rules are unclear, broken, etc. It's unlikely for playtesters to care more than you, especially if there's no real incentive to do so.

If the game's not important enough for you to spend one minute of your time to set up a way to distribute it, why should anyone want to spend hours playtesting it?

So, the message I'm getting is as follows:

The game is a shrunk down, then complicated version of 40K where I introduce things that typical wargamers don't want to deal with in a game of 40K.
How dare you criticize my methods!
How dare you expect me to make it easier for people to help me without being compensated!
I am mad. I want to act mad, but I want you to think I'm trying not to.
I don't care if there are other systems out there I might be inadvertently copying or from which I might have gotten some valuable insight.
I'm just a kid! Be easy on me. I'm fragile.
This isn't very important to me. I want you to do the work to make this thing better.

Sorry, bud. Maybe these are what you intended to say. Maybe not.
The truth is, I'm relatively easy going and, if I'm getting this message.... Well, I'm not the only one.

Just something to keep in mind.

Eric

MagickalMemories wrote:So, the message I'm getting is as follows:

The game is a shrunk down, then complicated version of 40K where I introduce things that typical wargamers don't want to deal with in a game of 40K.
How dare you criticize my methods!
How dare you expect me to make it easier for people to help me without being compensated!
I am mad. I want to act mad, but I want you to think I'm trying not to.
I don't care if there are other systems out there I might be inadvertently copying or from which I might have gotten some valuable insight.
I'm just a kid! Be easy on me. I'm fragile.
This isn't very important to me. I want you to do the work to make this thing better.

Just something to keep in mind.

Yes, how dare you criticize me. My name is Mao.

Setting up an account is more than the account itself. I need to find a way to remember that I have that account for me, that's a lot of work.

I'm not mad. I've no real reason to be mad.


Eric

Not only rambling but really ungrateful towards the few that tried to help you out... Maybe you would be better off if everyone ignored your post because you are not digesting the suggestions well and kind of behaving a bit stressed out.

You're right. I have no interest in playtesting your game.
That doesn't mean I wasn't trying to help you out.

A day after you posted your first message, you posted a second, "Noone?" post because nobody had responded. I was attempting to assist you in getting hits on your thread.

As for the "delicate flower" comment... you missed my point. Of course, you didn't say it. That is the message I got, though, when you (now repeatedly) played the "I'm just a kid" card.
If you're going to respond to difficulties and complications with "I don't want to do that. I'm just a kid," then the responses you get from others is going to be, "I don't want to do that. You're just a kid."

If you want to be taken seriously, then show some commitment. If you want to fall back on, "You shouldn't expect that of me. I'm a kid," then we'll treat you with one.
Stop playing with toys and do your homework!
(That is a rhetorical statement. It's meant in jest, but to illustrate my point)

As for inadvertently creating a better game... your goal should have been to purposefully create one.

Lastly... I see that you've got a blog. Post it there and you won't need a file sharing service.

Eric