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So I am a Tau player and I was wondering if a str 10 railgun shot would insta pen an Ork Truk. I am asking because i say that it can but my friends say that this is not the case and a roll of 1 always fails. I cannot find this statment in the BGB anywhere and it only says to hit and wound that a roll of one always fails. So scince it is AV 10 vs Str 10 it should penetrate on a roll of 1 am I correct in thinking this.

your friend is wrong, the railgun auto pens a armoUr 10 vehicle

10 + 1 = 11

I'd say that's a pen right there.

Next time your friends say that, ask them to show you the rule. Then watch as they despair.

A roll of a 1 when using a characteristic is always a fail - ie, rolling based on your Ballistic Skill (when shooting), Weapon Skill (when hitting in close combat), Saves (when taking armour/invul saves) and so on.

It's the reverse with characteristic tests, where a 1 is always a pass, and a 6 is always a fail - or in the case of Leadership tests, a double 1 is always a pass.

Rolling an armour penetration dice is neither a roll using a characteristic, nor a roll testing a characteristic: you are simply rolling to gain a value. There are no auto-fails nor auto-successes irrespective of the target's armour (unless a special wargear rule states otherwise) - you are just rolling the dice to get a number between 1 and 6, and adding that to the strength of your weapon to see if you affect the vehicle.

So, yes, in the case of an Ork trukk, a strength 10 weapon will automatically penetrate, since no matter what value you roll, the result will exceed 10.

Same way that a strength 9 vehicle will at the very least automatically glance a trukk.

Rolls for 'To hit', 'To wound' and saves aurto fail on a one. These are the only things that auto fail on a 1.

As already said above, don't believe your friends attempts to save his vehicles... the tau are bad enough without the extra need to nurf the railguns capabilities.

Winthster wrote:As already said above, don't believe your friends attempts to save his vehicles...

Aye. It's quite plain on pg 60 of the rulebook how it works. Armour Penetration - roll a d6 and add the strength of the weapon, compare to AV.

If people continue to insist you should at least start claiming that a Melta weapon also autofails if it rolls a one on either die. ;-)

so you need to roll to hit a a stationary vehicle since 1's always miss? No, I've had so many people get this same thing wrong .

azgrim wrote:so you need to roll to hit a a stationary vehicle since 1's always miss? No, I've had so many people get this same thing wrong .

The "1 is always a miss" doesn't apply to hitting a stationary vehicle, since there's no roll to hit a stationary vehicle... it's an automatic hit, no roll required, the mechanic doesn't apply.

I've found that the only time opponents have an issue with autopens is when you roll well on the damage roll.

"so that was your pen roll... you pen me !'

" I autopenned you already!"

"yeah, but you still have to roll.Now roll that dice (showing a 5) again, for the damage chart.."

"1"

Best to mention that you autopen to your opponent, to avoid this crud

Ascalam wrote:I've found that the only time opponents have an issue with autopens is when you roll well on the damage roll.

"so that was your pen roll... you pen me !'

" I autopenned you already!"

"yeah, but you still have to roll.Now roll that dice (showing a 5) again, for the damage chart.."

"1"

Best to mention that you autopen to your opponent, to avoid this crud

Agreed.

You need to be absolutely clear any time you skip, or otherwise shortcut, a die roll. And, keep in mind, there are plenty of people out there who don't understand statistics or are superstitious. It's much easier and quicker to just go with it and roll the unnecessary die in these cases.

Just for thios situation of auto pens, I have a dice covered with paper, with a 1 on all sides. Take that you whiney s!

Wow Thanks Redkeybored even I get this rule confused, thanks for puttuing this up.

I've had folks request I roll the pen dice even though my Warboss' PK is STR 10 and I'm assaulting a stationary vehicle with rear armor 10. Never figured out why but if they request it I'll roll the things then show them all the pens.

Boss GreenNutz wrote:I've had folks request I roll the pen dice even though my Warboss' PK is STR 10 and I'm assaulting a stationary vehicle with rear armor 10. Never figured out why but if they request it I'll roll the things then show them all the pens.

It's how you do it so no worries. Keeps things simple.