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So I am a looking to get into WM and came across the 2 player starter box. My questions are:

1. What faction should I use (menoth or khador) - I prefer an army that is a jack of all trades... master of none (i.e. a faction that can be close combat or ranged depending on what I feel like). In WH40K I committed to a close combat tyranid army and am now not liking it so much and wish I could play a ranged army.
2. Would it be beneficial to buy two 2 player battle boxes and combine the forces to make a legal 35 point army? Can this even be done?

Any answers would be greatly appreciated. Also Is anyone interested in splitting a two player battle box? Thanks.

I just say try both armies. Khador is very tough and stright forward. Menoth's power comes from the prayers that they use.

Two boxes will only give you two of the same jacks. It would also give you 10 men-o-war which you can never go wrong with.

Two boxes will get you to 35. Your army will be starved for flexibility though. Warmachine doesn't really reward spamming lots of the same units.

I wouldn't purchase two 2 player boxes. It's very rare that I'll want to use two of the same unit/jack (theme lists excluded, but new players shouldn't go that route to start with).

As for which faction meets your requirements for being a jack of all trades. Well, all factions can do that to an extent. For example Cygnar is often thought of as the shooting/gunline lot, but you put in Lord Commander Styker with storm(thingies) and you have a threatening melee force.

Here are some intro articles but in my mind you should be looking more at the Khadorian side of things.

As Yast mentioned, all factions can do anything. However, it's really Cygnar and Khador that are true "combined arms" factions. Cryx doesn't seem to have much shooting, and Menoth seems to be more about melee than shooting from what I've seen.

It's not a good idea at all to buy 2 of the same box. As keezus mentioned, you won't have much flexibility when combining two of the same box. I can only really comment on the specifics of Khador since they're my main faction. pSorscha can barely manage 2 jacks, and she has very little synergy with the Man o' War Shocktroopers beyond giving them extra DEF. For Khador, the box is only meant to introduce you to the game and see how infantry works.

My suggestion before you buy anything is to go down to you LGS and get a demo game or three. Actually play someone elses army (people are usually really cool in this regard and LOVE to get new players involved) and see the game in action. It will help you choose which faction best suites your playstyle.

Also, 40k and Warmachine/Hordes are really COMPLETELY different. The basis is similar, little toy soldiers killing each other, but the interactions of models and synergies within faction are much more complicated than they appear, while the game mechanics are fairly simple and easy to learn.

Once you choose a faction, (highly recommend choosing one that a. appeals to you visually, b. like their play style) then you can dive head in with a battlebox and some figures to taste.

So if I chose Khador, what should be my next purchases? By the way I only want to go with the new plastic models...

If you want to go only plastic because of your experience with GW metal, you're looking at PP metals short-sighted. PP metals are far far superior than GW metal. In addition, there's not that much Khador plastic beyond 'jacks and the Man o' War.

oh, bugger. Warmachine isn't moving towards plastic models in a fast way. There are a few plastic models out there but mostly it's the bigger models like men-o-wars and jacks. Also something to be aware of is that PP's plastic needs superglue to be put together as it's not based upon styrophone(sp?).


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but as the next purchase I think the standard selection is widowmakers and a war dog.

reimermath wrote:So if I chose Khador, what should be my next purchases? By the way I only want to go with the new plastic models...

Sticking entirely with plastics isn't advisable because plastics, especially in Khador, only represent about 50% of the warjack line and less than 5% of the unit/solo lineup outside of the battlebox. The good news is, PP metals are the best/easier to work with that I have ever experienced, approximately a light year above GW in terms of flash, assembly, and prep. No, they're not multipose, but that's the only gripe I can come up with.

Here's 'the thing' about the Khadoran battlebox: It is a very good basic list to learn with. It is not so much a very good 'advanced play' list. You can absolutely build an army around the Khador battlebox, but most people's idea of competitive Khador will include few/no elements in the Khador battlebox.

So what should you actually buy/why am I being such a downer?

Khador tends to run infantry heavy lists. This is simply because Khadoran warjacks are complete resource hogs and it's difficult to run more than a couple in a list without having some sort of glaring matchup problem. Khadoran infantry, by contrast, is relatively standalone and tends to be cost effective. A lot of Khadoran lists look like a blob of dudes with 1-2 big death robots.

If I were going to advise your first 'big' purchases, I'd say get the Winterguard Infantry (max unit) with the Unit Attachment and Kovnik Joe. This will give you 12 dudes in a unit with shotguns, and Joe, who buffs them to make sure those shotguns go straight into your opponent's face. Along with this, get Behemoth. Behemoth, as both a shooty and fighty warjack, is all about combined arms and can/will do brilliant things for you. Also get a War Dog to make your warcaster teeth-gnashingly unkillable.

AresX8 wrote:If you want to go only plastic because of your experience with GW metal, you're looking at PP metals short-sighted. PP metals are far far superior than GW metal. In addition, there's not that much Khador plastic beyond 'jacks and the Man o' War.

+1 on this. I've recently been getting back into WM/H and popped open a box of mechanithralls. There's almost zero flash, and mold lines are minimal.

Plus, some of the old metals like Mech thralls and Winter Guard require no assembly! Oh joy!

You're next purchases really depend on what you're playstyle is and what caster you're using, to a degree.

Personally? I'd say Iron Fang Pikemen or a full unit of Winter Guard + the UA. Can't go wrong with either, really.

reimermath wrote:So if I chose Khador, what should be my next purchases? By the way I only want to go with the new plastic models...

Then you're wanting to fail.

Sorry to sound like a downer, but that gives you an option of:

1 Warcaster(Sorcha)
4 Warjacks(Juggernaught, Destroyer, Marauder, Decimator) with eventually 3 more(Spriggan, Devestator, and the new one from Wrath)
3 Units(Man-o-War Shocktroopers, Bombadiers, and Democorp)

And cutting yourself from every Solo in the army.

the one thing with metal models from PP is that sometimes they come in more pieces then necessary and with PP's plastic models you still need to use super glue

If you choose Khador, your next purchase after the 2-player battle box should be the faction deck(or book) and a blister or two of extra, spare blank bases. That way you can proxy the units you like the feel of from your Khador book/faction deck, and make your own decisions as to what you purchase next.

I've noticed that a lot of people often recommend for Khador: battle box, widow makers, full Iron Fangs/Winter Guard, and then whatever solo fills your army to 35 points. Well, I started with Iron Fangs, and I hated 'em. I never could figure them out properly. Then I got some Winterguard, and things just *clicked*. So now I always tell people to proxy, proxy, proxy. A blister of empty bases is $5. For $15, you can get enough bases to proxy a unit, some solos, a warjack, whatever. And then when you make your next purchase of actual models, you can be satisfied in knowing that you actually *like* the models you're buying.

I would also like to point out that Khador may seem like "big tough guys with big tough bots" at its heart but that isn't entirely accurate. They can be just as tricksy as Cryx with their movement shenanigans and high defense units or as brick wall as Menoth in their synergy, they're just a little more subtle about it than those armies.

Mr. Grey wrote:I've noticed that a lot of people often recommend for Khador: battle box, widow makers, full Iron Fangs/Winter Guard, and then whatever solo fills your army to 35 points. Well, I started with Iron Fangs, and I hated 'em. I never could figure them out properly.

I think you just got some bad advice. I'd never suggest IFP as a first-item-buy unless someone explicitly wanted to play eIrusk.

First time player? Get WGDS, get Joe, get Behemoth, get an Iron Flesh caster. Now you've got a module that you can build around with 4 different warcasters.

I don't suggest Behemoth with pButcher, as he's way way too focus hungry for Butcher. Butcher likes holding onto his focus since in his lists he's one of the major fear factors.

IFP are insanely good with Butcher as well due to their synergy with his feat, Iron Flesh, and Fury. P+S 16 over 10 guys with CMA on feat turn is scary against anything.

Butcher's feat actually works best with Behemoth's shooting rather than his CC ability. 2-3 focus to boost hits and Feat crushes even hard infantry.

And although IFP do work well with Butcher, Kayazy are even better (especially if you bring Saxon to give pathfinder). And the WGDS is simply horrendous with boosted Pow10 weaponmaster sprays or boosted Pow 14 weaponmaster 2 man CRAS.

reimermath wrote:So if I chose Khador, what should be my next purchases? By the way I only want to go with the new plastic models...

Depends on which way tou want to go. But a unit of Widowmakers and an infantry unit of choice (Winter Gaurd or Kayazy maybe) is hard to go wrong with.

As others said, toy around with some other warcasters. Next time youre in your hobby store, take a peek in the Khador book and see if any other 'casters and models peak your interest, or just buy it. Or do some quick web searching. Dakka has articles on Warmachine so give them a look as well. The rulebooks are a solid buy even if your not sure what exactly you want to use, since its all there to research.

I just recently started up WM myself and while the box set offered Kreoss, I decided to make High Executioner Reznik my main caster and use Kreoss once and a while. I also suggest doing some proxy games before making any purchases, assuming you have opponents that are cool with it.

This is a little off topic, but can someone list all of the models for Menoth that are plastic? Someone earlier in the post listed all of the Khador plastics and a friend was curious which Menoth ones are already plastic. Thanks.

I second most of the suggestions in this thread but would recommend Beast-09 over Behemoth: Beast is basically an upgrade over the base Juggernaut in every possible way, and will be a solid model at worst for any warcaster in the faction.

reimermath wrote:This is a little off topic, but can someone list all of the models for Menoth that are plastic? Someone earlier in the post listed all of the Khador plastics and a friend was curious which Menoth ones are already plastic. Thanks.

High exemplar Kreoss, crusader, vanquisher, templar, cinerators, bastions, and soon the sanctifier, castigater, and the mighty reckoner.

There's also a couple light jacks. Redeemer and... I forget, the horrible flamethrower one.

Horrible Flamethrower One? I hope you're referring to the horrible things it does to your army, rather than it somehow being a horrible model. RAT 7 POW 14 with auto-fire is nothing to sneeze at.

The Repenter is what you're thinking of. I believe that the Redeemer, Repenter, Revenger, and Vigilant are all in plastic, while the Devout and Dervish remain in metal.