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I'm new to dakka dakka so let me give a short intro. 4-5 years ago I had and played the LotR version of Warhammer, but with school and getting married I no longer had much time to dedicate to the hobby. I painted them, but they were nothing amazing. This past week I picked up a AoBR set(I've always wanted to get into 40k) and I really want to learn to paint them well. The color scheme for my marines is down below, mostly black on orange. Going for the 5th company of a self made chapter called Atomic Nova(Or thats the name I have so far)

Now for my problems, I was told to go with black undercoat. With my LotR miniatures I used white undercoat which covered very easily. The black however is not liking my orange much and after I threw on a few layers it looks rather splotchy but at least its orange, sadly its very orange. My budget was fairly tight so I didn't pick up any foundation paints or any washes.

What are some things I can do to help my models look better? Do I need to pick up some foundations or washes? What colors should I be highlighting with? If needed I can post all the colors I did buy. I will post pictures tonight when I get home of the 1 marine I have finished, so you guys can get a better look at how it turned out. I undercoated him with white after I couldn't get a good orange on the black(Tried the black on an old model)

One thing to keep in mind, everyone seems to like the beat up war hardened look for their models, I however want them to look like they were fresh off the SM factory lines!


SM color scheme:

No picture bud, so it is hard to say....personally I think it is a very bad idea to base coat black...to many coverage issues, white is much better.

Ashton

I can't seem to get either of my cameras to get a good enough picture to where you can see the paint. Here is the clearest one I seem to be able to get.




I think I can get rid of the bad blotchy paint if I just thing out my orange instead of using it straight from the pot. But I am still having issues getting good shadows and highlights with the orange. I've never used wash before but if I use a black wash how badly will it dull out the orange? Also what colors should I be using for highlights? And should I buy the orange foundation paint even if I stick with white undercoats?

Aside from being able to cover the white easier is there any real pros or cons between the white or black undercoats?


Remember I want this army looking clean and new!

Thanks for all the input and help

If your budget is a tad low for washes, you can make your own using your paints! there are many tutorials online on how to do this, but the one I've seen be the most effective is alot of water, a bit of paint and a bit of PVA glue, i believe this was on miniwargaming.com

If you can get washes, don't be afraid of them!

they are very easy and friendly to use, if you just want some shading, filler etc, then apply it to the target areas only, if you are very scared of it covering areas you wish it not to, after applying to a detailed spot you were wanting to fill (make the detail stand out) just take a paper towel or nearby clothing and wipe away any unwanted paint.. take warning with this though, if you really must do it, do it fast before any of it sets to leave a stain.

Alternatively you can use a heavy wash over the whole model ( or a lot of it ) and make the model darker as a whole.

PS, keep in mind how friendly washes are, they make a mediocre or down right bad looking model look great.

Thank you MrWind0W for your help.

Another question I had, do most people paint then assemble their models or do they assemble them then paint? I'm not sure how I would have done his chest eagle had I not painted it before I put his gun on.


Last question for now, Does anyone know any tricks to get the miniatures to photograph well? I can't seem to get the camera to focus on them.

Everyone does it a little differently but most assemble (or mostly assemble) then paint. Some use blue tac to asseble and paint then actually glue after it's painted.

It sounds like I paint like you, assemble all but the gun or a single arm, paint, then finish assembly. Morale of the story, whatever works for you.

Orange can be a tough color to get nice coverage with on top of black. If you've already primed all your models I'd say go and do several light washes of something like beasty brown or codex gray before applying the orange and the blotchy-ness should be less of a problem.

Yeah, I've never really understood why so many people swear by a black undercoat. I use it very rarely, only when I want a very dark, dirty, or gritty looking model. Since I prefer bright colors and high contrast, white is the way to go. I've never tried grey primer, but I'm interested to see how it works.

The general theory is that a light undertone will cause your colors to be brighter, and a dark undertone will cause your colors to be brighter. Since orange is bright, for it to look clean and shiny, a white primer would probably be the best option for you.

Nimbosa wrote:Orange can be a tough color to get nice coverage with on top of black. If you've already primed all your models I'd say go and do several light washes of something like beasty brown or codex gray before applying the orange and the blotchy-ness should be less of a problem.

I haven't even taken any of the other marines out of the box. I just did one to test how the color scheme would look.

I think i'm going to have to pick up another can of white undercoat and some black wash next weekend(Nearest hobby shop that carries GW stuff is 300 miles away)


What would you guys recommend for highlighting colors?

And from what you can see of the one picture, thoughts / comments on the color scheme for the marines?

I think its a good color scheme. I had thought of doing something similar, but changed my mind.

I use black undercoat myself, but it is one of the colors in my SM paint scheme. If I want to cover black with a lighter color, I use codex gray first, then the lighter color. Seen this done on a painting tutorial on YouTube, I believe for painting white armor, but works for other colors to.

I would check out some of the tutorial videos on YouTube from Les at awesomepaintjob, he gives some good tips, and has different videos for different paint schemes. I would see if you can find one on the Blood Angels, could probably use some of the same colors for your highlight colors, or could give you some ideas.

Hope this helps out.

If you want the crisp, bright color use white for you base. With regards to highlights, do you want something gradual or extreme highlighting? It doesn't sound like you are trying to get complicated and budget is an issue. You could simply add some white to the orange gradually and add a layer of highlight, continuing this process until you achieve the desired effect.

Agreeing that black is a bad base for most models. For your models I would actually use a RED basecoat (there are red primers out there) then highlight with orange. The red will serve the same purpose as the black e.g. giving you shadows. If you want to do another level of highlighting mix some yellow in with the orange for the brightest highlights.

Secondly, it should take several passes with a non-foundation paint. Remember to thin your paints. If you can cover it in one pass and not see the layer underneath your paints are probably too thick (foundation paints being the exception)

Your marine is very orange lol. Looks a couple of shade brighter than your mock up. Definitely try the badab black wash. It works wonders on everything. I find that the best way to highlight and shade is to cover your model with yoir base coour. Hit it with a lifht wash of the colour your using. My marines are green so i use thraka. The hit the edges with a fine line of your original colour and wash it all again. just a very very basic highlight for those of us with a budget. Lol. And the best part is that if you stuff up your highlight just give it a heavier wash and it blends right in. This works great for the lenses on marines cause i always end up having to go back around the edges agian cause i slopped paint. Get the wash in the lense to cause it shades the eye so all you have to do is add.ansmall amount ofnthe original colour followed by some white or a lighter colour to give the marines a very realistic result.
Hope i helped lol

@Fallen_Veteran I don't want to make it horridly extreme just some highlights to give it some more depth. I did pick up Skull White and the yellow, so I should be able to make a lighter orange for highlighting or do you think yellow would look ok?

@Riplikash I think i'm going to stick with white for now, but I will keep red in mind. Yeah I've done a few more test runs on older models and thinning the paint down helps a LOT!


A few more questions,
Does anyone have a cheaper alternative to the GW primer? I am going to need a new can of white and if I can get something that has the same effect for a lower price I would prefer that.

With me wanting to have the armor look new and shiny, should I still use a black wash to get the shadows? or should I just use a darker color under the orange like a dark grey, brown or red(After the white primer)?

Lastly, does anyone have any tips for photographing my models? I'd like to do a bunch of WIP pictures but I can't get my camera to focus on the models if they are any closer than the picture posted above and you can't really see any detail from that far away.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

DRAGOONS wrote:Your marine is very orange lol. Looks a couple of shade brighter than your mock up. Definitely try the badab black wash. It works wonders on everything. I find that the best way to highlight and shade is to cover your model with yoir base coour. Hit it with a lifht wash of the colour your using. My marines are green so i use thraka. The hit the edges with a fine line of your original colour and wash it all again. just a very very basic highlight for those of us with a budget. Lol. And the best part is that if you stuff up your highlight just give it a heavier wash and it blends right in. This works great for the lenses on marines cause i always end up having to go back around the edges agian cause i slopped paint. Get the wash in the lense to cause it shades the eye so all you have to do is add.ansmall amount ofnthe original colour followed by some white or a lighter colour to give the marines a very realistic result.
Hope i helped lol

So with me having orange as my main color what wash would you suggest I use? Still stick with black or go for something like sepia or a red? Hopefully at some point i'll have a whole slew of washes, foundations and paints its just going to take time

I like the color scheme - but maybe use green for the eye lenses to make them pop?

Nimbosa wrote:I like the color scheme - but maybe use green for the eye lenses to make them pop?

Thats actually a really good idea i'll have to try that on my test model when I get home.

Anyone else have any helpful input or answers to my previous questions?

Having never painted orange i have no idea which wash is best. Sepia would be very subtle and red maybe too over the top. The brown wqsh might be possible as well. Maybe go down to your lgs and see if one of the guys can let you have a play with their washes. Lol

fival wrote:@Fallen_Veteran I don't want to make it horridly extreme just some highlights to give it some more depth. I did pick up Skull White and the yellow, so I should be able to make a lighter orange for highlighting or do you think yellow would look ok?

Use the yellow, mix it with your Blazing Orange and then work up to straight yellow just on the very edges. If you use white you will get a salmon-y colour which... is a bit weird.

I think i'm going to stick with white for now, but I will keep red in mind. Yeah I've done a few more test runs on older models and thinning the paint down helps a LOT!

Well done, you've learnt the #1 rule for working with Citadel paints. Do not use straight out of the pot.

Does anyone have a cheaper alternative to the GW primer? I am going to need a new can of white and if I can get something that has the same effect for a lower price I would prefer that.

There's tonnes. Really it boils down to what you can get your hands on. I recently got the Vallejo Poly Primer (Black) and having tried it out it's just what I wanted. However, it is airbrush/brush-on only. For spray primers, you have Krylon, automotive primers, Tamiya, Army Painter, Model Masterclass, etc., etc. The real issue with spray primers though is how often you can spray. Really it needs to be 15°C+ and less than 60% humidity to get a good coat outside, and doing it inside has a whole slew of problems. Here in sunny Britain, I just go for a brush-on .

With me wanting to have the armor look new and shiny, should I still use a black wash to get the shadows? or should I just use a darker color under the orange like a dark grey, brown or red(After the white primer)?

I would suggest going for Devlan Mud. It has an orange tone, it's deep enough and to avoid the "dirtying" effect, you can then paint the Blazing Orange back onto the non-shadowed areas. This will help give it a clean look. If you want to make the colour really pop however, then red is a better idea.

Lastly, does anyone have any tips for photographing my models? I'd like to do a bunch of WIP pictures but I can't get my camera to focus on the models if they are any closer than the picture posted above and you can't really see any detail from that far away.

You need to put your camera in Macro mode, if it has one. It should look like a flower symbol. Once in Macro mode, it has a much closer focal length, which is handy for taking close-ups of flowers, or miniatures. Good lighting from several sources, if possible, get the shadows behind the miniature obviously, and a piece of white paper as a background is a good idea.

Here's a three-part tutorial on taking miniature photos that will hopefully give you some ideas.

Hope that helped.

Oh, and here's some Fire Dragon tutorial for tips on painting orange: Painting Clinic and Youtube.