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So I was brainstorming the other night about how to bring back the traits system in a more balanced way than the original, but without relying on special characters again. This would be done by doing a points-per-model upgrade system as opposed to a character doing the changing. For example:

In a Crimson Fists army, all models with the Chapter Tactics rule must swap for Stubborn at no additional cost. In addition, all Sternguard models must take Hold The Line! for +2 additional points per model, granting them scoring.

To keep the special characters useful, they would modify some of the ways the army is constructed. For instance, Pedro Kantor could take one squad of Sternguard as a troops choice. Here's more ideas:

In a Salamanders army, all models armed with flamers, heavy flamers, melta guns, multimeltas, and thunderhammers must upgrade them to master crafted at a cost of +1, +1, +3, +3, and +1 points, respectively

In an Imperial Fists army, all models with the Chapter Tactics rule must swap for Stubborn at no additional cost. In addition, One ruin in the Imperial Fist deployment zone may be fortified for +10 points, and Devastator squads may take Tank Hunters at +15 points per squad.

So those are just the basics of my idea. What do you folks think of this idea, and how would you expand on it?

I think your costs are to low. But that is a good ideia, and is pratically what i did in here my "Codex Salamanders" at here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/403986.page

Firstly, should this not be in Proposed rules?

Secondly, whiole non Vanilla players mifght like that, Nilla players won't.

Brother SRM wrote:

In a Salamanders army, all flamers, heavy flamers, melatguns, multimeltas, and thunderhammers must be upgraded to mastercrafted at +1, +1, +3, +3, +1.

Vulkan He'stan already MC Hammers, |TL HF/ Melta/ MM/ Flamers, and doesn't cost extyra poibnts to do it.

Similarly, Lysander fortifies for free, and gives stubborn, though Tank Hunters is new.



Kantor makes all Combat Tactics Stubborn and gives Sternguard hold the line for free. What makes that better than the Character himself already?


When making propsed improvements, you should ask yourself, "will this be an improvement on what they have already?"


For the Nilla Player, in this instance, the answer is no.

I know that, I'm thinking of doing it as a means to scale armies better and make them less reliant on special characters. I play a Pedro-centric Sternguard list with my Crimson Fists. With this idea I could still play a Salamanders list in a 500 point game or what have you without having to spend nearly 200 points on Vulkan, and so on.

I'm not thinking this as an improvement to what we have, merely another means to the same end.

You could always make a list of optional Chapter Tactics, which can be switched if the list includes a Chapter Master (and therefore would make them possibly worth taking).

I liked the chapter traits system alot, though it was incredibly unbalanced it made different codex marines feel different.
I like Crimson Fists, but believe me; Kantor, sternguard, power fist... it gets old...
Especially when you decide you want to play your Captain Cortez and then realize that all your sternguard aren't as good without Kantor :C

I switched to blood ravens (aka BLUDD RAHVES) to not have to play a character to feel like i'm playing the army. Ontop of that its balanced by being a pay for ability rather than 2 equivelant armies facing off, but one is "magically" better cause they're green marines. Not sure about the points costs you've given per say, but it should be an idea you follow up on.

I think this would be a great edition to codex marines, though I would still like to see disadvantages like in the old chapter traits, but i digress..

I figure the disadvantage would be paying a points premium, but there's definitely room for disadvantages as it's similar to the old system.

You also have the problem of over WYSIWYg. If you paint up Imperila DFists, but are palying Planetstrike as attackers, so you don't have buildings in your deployment zone, and decide you would much rather have the bonus that Salamanders give, you will have people who say,

"They aren't Salamanders, they are Imperial Fists because that is what you painted them."