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What exactly are the "End Times?" Supposedly the Primarchs will return and bad things will happen. Has GW even hinted at even a clue of what will happen? They can only keep the universe stagnant for so long, and this "End Times" business is fairly intriguing.

Although, technically the universe isn't stagnant, because the new Necron codex is coming out in a month or so, and the fluff associated with it will be (hopefully) nothing we've heard before. The thing about WH40k is that unlike Sci-fi RPGs like Shadowrun, GW has never really had to update their stuff to keep with the times, and has been able to keep their galaxy in a state of constant war. This has to change, probably not now, nor in 6th ed (probably), but sooner or later GW is going to have to move their universe forward, and when they do, I think they'll come out with a sort of mega-Apocalypse expansion to allow for not only the C'Tan like the Void Dragon and the Outsider (who we just know will bust out of that Dyson sphere at some point, why not when everything going bananas?), but also the Primarchs and their shenanigans.

Thoughts?

When the End Times hit, everybody is going to die in a catastrophically awesome clusterfeth of a battle.

Its bound to be a big stalemate for every race. they cant end it cause then they're sales will drop. it just might actually end with something that makes the story continue in a different way. maybe with another race or one less race.

Orkymike wrote:Its bound to be a big stalemate for every race. they cant end it cause then they're sales will drop. it just might actually end with something that makes the story continue in a different way. maybe with another race or one less race.

HERESY!!!!

I doubt GW would ever get another race in their...

and if they did, that's just another codex I'm going to need to wait for an update for.....

bombboy1252 wrote:

Orkymike wrote:Its bound to be a big stalemate for every race. they cant end it cause then they're sales will drop. it just might actually end with something that makes the story continue in a different way. maybe with another race or one less race.

HERESY!!!!

I doubt GW would ever get another race in their...

and if they did, that's just another codex I'm going to need to wait for an update for.....

Actually, there was a rumor I saw on the 40konline forum that said that GW could be planning a Skitarii codex for 6th ed.

McNinja wrote:What exactly are the "End Times?" Supposedly the Primarchs will return and bad things will happen. Has GW even hinted at even a clue of what will happen?

The prophesies around the "End Times" in 40k is really no different than such prophesies in various modern day religions.

The stories were made up, probably by the inquisition, to try and keep the masses focused on fighting a never ending war with at least some light at the end of the tunnel. Those Primarchs won't return .. well, except for some of the ones that turned to Chaos and haven't been killed yet. You can bet they'll come back at some point. However, the others are gone.

Basically, the in game humanity needs some reason to keep going. Sure the Astartes are bred for war but to what end? They stomp a planet for a xenos only to have another pop right up. Or they bring a formerly imperial planet back in line after some governor decided to form his own empire. The idea that an "End Times" exists and that it will have the final show down gives a glimmer of hope to those that are fighting. Specifically, that at some point in the future all of their blood, sweat and tears will finally pay off.

Otherwise, it's pointless.

The Time of Ending is a period in Imperial history that began with the first encounter with the Tyranids, so roughly 750.M41. It was predicted shortly before first contact with the Tyranids by a human seer who would later be executed for heresy. The Tyranid invasions and the first encounter with the Necrons were combined with major actions by old-enemies such as the Armageddon Wars/13th Black Crusade and emerging alien threats such as the Tau/Ulumeathic/Draxian. This was combined with the failure discovered in the Golden Throne, the exhausted state of the Imperial War machine following the Wars of Redemption period, and the gradually increasing instability/rebellion in the Imperium. Overall, it means the Imperium is fethed and as of 999.M41 it was in its most desperate state since the Age of Apostasy.

The Necrons have since been basically removed as an existential threat given the latest codex though. It's really just a hype campaign by GW and I doubt much will come of it.

McNinja wrote:

bombboy1252 wrote:

Orkymike wrote:Its bound to be a big stalemate for every race. they cant end it cause then they're sales will drop. it just might actually end with something that makes the story continue in a different way. maybe with another race or one less race.

HERESY!!!!

I doubt GW would ever get another race in their...

and if they did, that's just another codex I'm going to need to wait for an update for.....

Actually, there was a rumor I saw on the 40konline forum that said that GW could be planning a Skitarii codex for 6th ed.

O really?

Harriticus wrote:The Time of Ending is a period in Imperial history that began with the first encounter with the Tyranids, so roughly 750.M41. It was predicted shortly before first contact with the Tyranids by a human seer who would later be executed for heresy. The Tyranid invasions and the first encounter with the Necrons were combined with major actions by old-enemies such as the Armageddon Wars/13th Black Crusade and emerging alien threats such as the Tau/Ulumeathic/Draxian. This was combined with the failure discovered in the Golden Throne, the exhausted state of the Imperial War machine following the Wars of Redemption period, and the gradually increasing instability/rebellion in the Imperium. Overall, it means the Imperium is fethed and as of 999.M41 it was in its most desperate state since the Age of Apostasy.

The Necrons have since been basically removed as an existential threat given the latest codex though. It's really just a hype campaign by GW and I doubt much will come of it.

so let's see who will be the first to shut down the Golden Throne?
- Chaos
- Necrons
- Tyranids
- Tau (this race wants to claim the whole Imperium as their very own thing, while others simply wants us all killed. but for now they need a better space travelling technology. the Medusa campaign proved that Warp is not their thing.)

may I ask you few things.
1. does Terra has webway gate? ones that's Xeno thing and still functional (but not being used due to the tight Imperial defenses)
2. Do Tau scientists working on (how to navigate), or aware of the existence of Webway?

I sort of saw it as an endgame for Games Workshop. If they ever had to shutdown, I could imagine them saying, "Oh hey, the galaxy is ending, come down to your local store and duke it out." Because, supposedly, the Emperor's soul will extinguish the chaos gods and there will be one huge battle to end it all. They could tally the results worldwide and it'd all be over.

There will be no end time. From a purely real world perspective, end time means no more updates, no more new codices, no more new books. It would be corporate suicide for GW. GW is a business, businesses need to make money, destroying your own money-making machine of a universe for the sake of a story does not make sense.

Lone Cat wrote:1. does Terra has webway gate? ones that's Xeno thing and still functional (but not being used due to the tight Imperial defenses)
2. Do Tau scientists working on (how to navigate), or aware of the existence of Webway?

1. Yes, it's right under the Golden Throne and is being barely held together by the Emperor. That portion of the Webway is now breached and full of daemons thanks to Magnus the Red.
2. Seriously unlikely. The Tau have no psykers, and the Warp and Webway are very much psyker territory (given that the only two non-Eldar aware of the Webway in the 31st millennium were the two most powerful psykers at the time: the Emperor and Magnus).

For the endtime, or wolftime, or whatever your respective army calls it, there will be some way that the Emperor will lose control of the gak-pit under the failing Golden Throne, and Daemons, Eldar, and Dark Eldar will flood Tera. Every Space Marine will be recalled from where ever they are. Naturally the Nids and Orks will show up, sensing the massive fight. Abbadon will see an opportunity to take Terra. The Necrons will see the opportunity to destroy life in the galaxy. All the C'tan and Chaos Gods will come, bringing everything they have to bear. Every living Primarch will return, Guilliman will revive in stasis, and all the Chaos ones will burst from the warp. Alpharius and Omegon will aid the Loyalists and it will end with The Emperor and Magnus psychically dueling until the planet cracks in a warp-plosion and everything dies, the rest of the Imperium will be thrown into disary. The Warp will blend with the materium and nothing will survive.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And then Chuck Testa will taxedermise them all.

TheAngrySquig wrote:For the endtime, or wolftime, or whatever your respective army calls it, there will be some way that the Emperor will lose control of the gak-pit under the failing Golden Throne, and Daemons, Eldar, and Dark Eldar will flood Tera. Every Space Marine will be recalled from where ever they are. Naturally the Nids and Orks will show up, sensing the massive fight. Abbadon will see an opportunity to take Terra. The Necrons will see the opportunity to destroy life in the galaxy. All the C'tan and Chaos Gods will come, bringing everything they have to bear. Every living Primarch will return, Guilliman will revive in stasis, and all the Chaos ones will burst from the warp. Alpharius and Omegon will aid the Loyalists and it will end with The Emperor and Magnus psychically dueling until the planet cracks in a warp-plosion and everything dies, the rest of the Imperium will be thrown into disary. The Warp will blend with the materium and nothing will survive.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And then Chuck Testa will taxedermise them all.

Lol, not anymore. So Matt Ward declares. Necrons are more likely to ally with the Imperium now then fight it, I imagine they'll be a useful ally against the Tyranids.

Lol, I don't think so. There's nothing to suggest the would more likely ally with the Imperium than fight it from the information we've been given.

iproxtaco wrote:Lol, I don't think so. There's nothing to suggest the would more likely ally with the Imperium than fight it from the information we've been given.

That one part where they allied with the BA to fight the Tyranids.

TheAngrySquig wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:Lol, I don't think so. There's nothing to suggest the would more likely ally with the Imperium than fight it from the information we've been given.

That one part where they allied with the BA to fight the Tyranids.

And what were the doing before that? Oh yeah, trying to crush each other until they stopped their fighting to confront a common enemy. Still, it's only one example from old fluff, I was talking about the new fluff.

TheAngrySquig wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:Lol, I don't think so. There's nothing to suggest the would more likely ally with the Imperium than fight it from the information we've been given.

That one part where they allied with the BA to fight the Tyranids.

They didn't ally. Stop believing the internet hyperbole.

What they did was stop shooting each other so they can concentrate on the larger threat. That is not an alliance.

They fought alongside one another, not officially allied, but pretty damn close.

TheAngrySquig wrote:For the endtime, or wolftime, or whatever your respective army calls it, there will be some way that the Emperor will lose control of the gak-pit under the failing Golden Throne, and Daemons, Eldar, and Dark Eldar will flood Tera. Every Space Marine will be recalled from where ever they are. Naturally the Nids and Orks will show up, sensing the massive fight. Abbadon will see an opportunity to take Terra. The Necrons will see the opportunity to destroy life in the galaxy. All the C'tan and Chaos Gods will come, bringing everything they have to bear. Every living Primarch will return, Guilliman will revive in stasis, and all the Chaos ones will burst from the warp. Alpharius and Omegon will aid the Loyalists and it will end with The Emperor and Magnus psychically dueling until the planet cracks in a warp-plosion and everything dies, the rest of the Imperium will be thrown into disary. The Warp will blend with the materium and nothing will survive.

Apparently, Necrons aren't so concerned with destroying all life anymore, but rather finding the perfect vessels to resume their living forms. And the C'tan are all dead/splintered.

I'm not sure that even after so many thousands of years of nursing his bitterness, that Magnus could bring himself to raise a hand against his father.

They're still concerned with conquering all other races though, their only real change in that respect is their motive.

Right, but now they aren't a colossal and inexorable unified threat, just a bunch of separate mini-Empires trying to do their own thing. Some are at odds with each other, and at least one is actively attacking mainly other Necrons.

They are the Tomb Kings to the Dark Eldar's Vampire Counts.

Although honestly, after the latest codex, even the Tyranids aren't so much a threat. Most of the hive fleets have been destroyed (rather than just being tips of a massive galaxy-spanning swap as in prior editions), except for a few remnants here and there hibernating and recovering their strength. And the residents of the galaxy are getting better and better at fending off the swarms, with time being on their side considering how slowly the Hive Fleets advance.

Chaos, too, seems to have gone from an omnipresent threat to just a nuisance for the Grey Knights to slap down. Sure, lots of guardsmen and civilians die, but meh, plenty more where those came from.

The Orks are the biggest threat to the Imperium at this point, IMO.

Lord Rogukiel wrote:

McNinja wrote:

bombboy1252 wrote:

Orkymike wrote:Its bound to be a big stalemate for every race. they cant end it cause then they're sales will drop. it just might actually end with something that makes the story continue in a different way. maybe with another race or one less race.

HERESY!!!!

I doubt GW would ever get another race in their...

and if they did, that's just another codex I'm going to need to wait for an update for.....

Actually, there was a rumor I saw on the 40konline forum that said that GW could be planning a Skitarii codex for 6th ed.

O really?

Not a new race, that's a new army...that's like saying Blood Angels and Space Wolves are 2 different races, no, their just different armies...

Oh, and as much as I would LOVE a Skitarii codex, I'm sick of all the Imperial codexs....

Omegus wrote:Although honestly, after the latest codex, even the Tyranids aren't so much a threat. Most of the hive fleets have been destroyed (rather than just being tips of a massive galaxy-spanning swap as in prior editions), except for a few remnants here and there hibernating and recovering their strength. And the residents of the galaxy are getting better and better at fending off the swarms, with time being on their side considering how slowly the Hive Fleets advance.

Yeh, thats one of the reasons why the new Tyranid Codex completely ruined the tyranid "feeling" for me..now i don't really know what to play : (

Also, is the new eldar god thats supposedly being born in the ships crystal matrix when all the eldar souls are bound in their respective vessels bound to the endtime? Like "the endtime arrives when all eldar are dead and the new god respawns the eldar race anew and better", or more like "in the end times the eldar are all going to die anyways, so the new god will be born there and respawn the eldar race".
Also, being reborn into a universe that just got punched in the face really hard by pretty much every other race might not be as fun as it sounds xD

iDevour wrote:

Omegus wrote:even the Tyranids aren't so much a threat. Most of the hive fleets have been destroyed (rather than just being tips of a massive galaxy-spanning swap as in prior editions), except for a few remnants here and there hibernating and recovering their strength. And the residents of the galaxy are getting better and better at fending off the swarms, with time being on their side considering how slowly the Hive Fleets advance.

Yeh, thats one of the reasons why the new Tyranid Codex completely ruined the tyranid "feeling" for me..now i don't really know what to play : (

Maybe I am missing your point here guys but the Codex says

However, the truth is more complex than any could imagine, for each Hive Fleet is but a splinter of one greater assemblage, acting under the instructions of a single monstrous and unfathomable Intelligence - the Hive Mind.

Which seems to suggest that the Hive Fleets are still part of a massive Tyranid invasion.

Yes, they are all led by the Hive Mind.

In past fluff, however, the Hive Fleets were thought to be just the tip of the iceberg, but they have proven in fact to be self-contained masses (though centrally controlled), that have been isolated and destroyed one after another (with a few being able to seed some few hundred worlds with biomorphs ready to bust out and cause some chaos).

Their lack of any kind of Warp capability means they are a very slow and meandering threat, that the races of the universe are adapting to just as fast as it is adapting to their weapons. They've been at their invasion for centuries, and have destroyed less than 1% of the Imperium's holdings.

I do have to admit though, that the part about the Dark Eldar waking up Hive Fleet Jormungandr amused me to no end.
We used to joked that the next Dark Eldar Codex would be 1 sheet of paper with Dark Eldar Art on it, a big "EXTINCT" stamp across it, and a reference to "Tyranid Codex Site *Hive Fleet Jormungandr*" xD
But noooooo...pffsh

Surely for the term 'end times', the end of the universe, to be accurate, Chaos, Tyranids or Necrons would have to win. Otherwise one race would emerge triumphant. Whereas if Chaos wins, its servants will turn on each other and the gods will starve, if the Nids win, they will move on leaving a galaxy devoid of life and if the Necrons win, they'll reseed the galaxy with life and hibernate again, leaving a never ending cycle in their wake.

Omegus wrote:
In past fluff, however, the Hive Fleets were thought to be just the tip of the iceberg, but they have proven in fact to be self-contained masses (though centrally controlled), that have been isolated and destroyed one after another (with a few being able to seed some few hundred worlds with biomorphs ready to bust out and cause some chaos).

It's still the same as far as I can tell. They haven't proven to be self contained, the part before the quote that I posted says.

The Magos Biologis of the Imperium categorises each Tyranid Incursion as a separate force, an idividual fleet that works to its own agendas and competes with other Hive Fleets for resources. Indeed, the separate Hive Fleets appear to be self-sufficient, exhibiting different, characteristic strategies and developing unique creatures to overcome their prey

The appear part and then the However of the next sentence says otherwise, that they are not separate but are in fact one group.

However, the truth is more complex than any could imagine, for each Hive Fleet is but a splinter of one greater assemblage, acting under the instructions of a single monstrous and unfathomable Intelligence - the Hive Mind.

Omegus wrote:Their lack of any kind of Warp capability means they are a very slow and meandering threat, that the races of the universe are adapting to just as fast as it is adapting to their weapons. They've been at their invasion for centuries, and have destroyed less than 1% of the Imperium's holdings.

True, but when the whole force of the 'Nids arrives I think the Imperium and everything in its way will be in a lot of trouble.