Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

How long does it take to create a new space marine?

How many space marines can be "spawned" by a chapter in, say, a decade or a century?

I'm asking those questions because we hear quite regularly about SM chapters suffering "heavy losses" or having their numbers "depleted" or being brought "to the brink of extinction", etc. So, how much time would it take for a SM chapter to re-found a lost company?


What are your thoughts (and possible knowledge) about this?

It supposedly takes a few years from gene-seed implantation to full marineyness. Makes sense as there are some pretty serious physical changes that have to occur to the implantee, as well as all the indoctrination and training.

In terms of how fast can a chapter recover, I guess it depends on how much gene-seed is in their stocks. If they've lost their main base then they will be relying on scavenging gene seed from dead marines or extracting from living marines. That might slow them down a bit. If they have a good stock in storage then it will depend on how fast they can pick up successful aspirants from their training worlds.

Depends on the chapter AFAIK.

Anything more precise than that?

I'm particularly interested in the length of a marine's training, because it could bring some elements of answers to my other questions. From the time a random human is inducted in a space marine chapter, how long does it take him to become a scout, and then to become a full-fledged marine?

Initially the Secondary Heart is implanted in the initiate between ages 10 - 14. The Final Implant, the Black Carapace is added between ages 16 - 18.

All Space Marines require the Black Carapace to be able to interface with their armour and I assume this and the Progenoid Glands are what makes the Scout a Space Marine.

If the Progenoids are accepted you then get the Black Carapace. If your body rejects them then you either die or get assigned to other duties.

Training would probably be between the time that the organs are implanted.

Maybe this helps

A new Chapter cannot be founded overnight.

From the original slave come two progenoids, which are implanted within two more slaves, from which come four progenoids and so on. It takes about 55 years of constant reproduction to produce 1,000 healthy sets of organs.

So making a Space Marine full Chapter requires around 50 years.

Basically depends on the chapter. Black Templars for one could take longer, because the initiate (in their case, a neophyte) must prove himself before he is accepted as a Marine. But the Implantation process itself takes about 8 years, IIRC.

Making enough organs to implant into 1000 people takes 50 around 50 years. That does not mean you now have 1000 Space Marines.

Blood Angels do not actually have to wait for the organs to grow and then implant them. They still require progenoids, but the codex now claims that they have the progenoid implanted, drink some of Sanguinius' blood and enter their sarcophagus, at which point the organs grow within their bodies on their own. I don't have the codex with me right now and I don't believe the amount of time this takes is mentioned, but it could possibly be a much shorter time than most chapters need for the process. This might help explain how they managed to not die out after the Space Hulk disaster eliminated 950 of them in a single battle.

Battle Brother Ambrosius wrote:Basically depends on the chapter. Black Templars for one could take longer, because the initiate (in their case, a neophyte) must prove himself before he is accepted as a Marine. But the Implantation process itself takes about 8 years, IIRC.

All chapters do this. Their initiates become scouts and have to prove themselves ready to become a battle brother, at which point they earn their power armour.

7-8 years minimum.

actual time will vary because a scout may technically be ready for the Black Carapace, but the chapter has no openings, so he may wait a few years for a slot.


They could churn out Space Marines at a much higher rate then they do now. Many chapters, especially the original legions, are sitting on massive piles of Geneseed, but they limit themselves to 1,000 brothers so they don't use much of it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Laodamia wrote:

I'm asking those questions because we hear quite regularly about SM chapters suffering "heavy losses" or having their numbers "depleted" or being brought "to the brink of extinction", etc. So, how much time would it take for a SM chapter to re-found a lost company?

I belive it was calculated that a chapter can bounce back to full strength from only 10 marines(and 10 Progenoids) in 100 years assuming no losses during that time.


Marines have 2 Progenoids, each can make 1 space marine(including his 2 progenoids)

the first can be removed while the Marine is alive and it matures around the same time as he becomes a full marine(around 20 years of age)

the 2nd takes much longer to mature and is usually removed upon death.


the first progenoid ensures that the Marine's legacy doesn't die out and that no geneseed is lost. the 2nd allows the chapter to actually increase in numbers.

I have a question the tribesmen in Damnation Crusade that were going to be made space marines were above 20-25 years old...

No they weren't. not if you know the context.

Space Marines see some tribesmen doing some incredible feats. they don't mean those actual individuals for recruits, they mean the Tribsemen as a group would be a good recruiting pool. they will take the offspring of the tribesmen to be space marines.

Hmm that explains the situation a bit. Still 10 years old boys in a royal melee... Also the dude that got selected was way above the age for implants...

Yeah, it's pretty twisted. It's common for marines to pit their 10-12 year old aspirants in duels to the death or other deadly wargames and trials. The few who survived would probably survive because they were already remorseless sociopaths who have killed before. Truly messed up stuff. Think Ugandan child-soldiers and the like. Those are the populations from which marines would want to recruit, and probably only years of psycho-therapy can turn aspirants like that into marines with any sort of discipline and moral restraint.

Grey Templar wrote:7-8 years minimum.

actual time will vary because a scout may technically be ready for the Black Carapace, but the chapter has no openings, so he may wait a few years for a slot.


They could churn out Space Marines at a much higher rate then they do now. Many chapters, especially the original legions, are sitting on massive piles of Geneseed, but they limit themselves to 1,000 brothers so they don't use much of it.

Indeed, that's a good point.

I belive it was calculated that a chapter can bounce back to full strength from only 10 marines(and 10 Progenoids) in 100 years assuming no losses during that time.

I've got some problems understanding this point.

If you'd start with ten mature marines at year 0, you'd be almost immediately able to spawn 10 new marines from their first progenoid gland.
20 years later, you can harvest the first glands from the newly formed marines, thus being able to spawn ten new marines.
20 more years later, you'd be able to spawn another batch of 10 marines. etc.

At this rate, It'd take close to two millenniums to recreate a new space marine chapter. Unless you harvest the second progenoïd gland too, but as you said, isn't it only performed after the marine's death?

We arn't 100% sure that it MUST be done upon death. I belive that it can be done before death, but the deal is that most marines die before it matures and as such it is removed on the battlefield. Its still usable in its immature form(they can finish growing it in a tube), but its often left in the marine to grow.


The biggest problem is that GW hasn't given much info on the process and we are left to speculate. Sometimes I HATE GW for not giving us Technical specification books like they have for Star Wars. I want full body anatomy for every Xeno race and for Space Marines, I want full technical specifications for all 40k equipment...

After some intensive research, I found the following statement on a fan-made blog on the internet:

RED ELF wrote:Progenoids. There are two of these glands, one situated in the neck, the other deep within the chest cavity. These glands are important to the survival of the Marine's Chapter. Each organ grows within the Marine, absorbing hormonal stimuli and genetic material from the other implants. After five years, the neck gland is mature and ready for removal. After ten years, the chest gland becomes mature and is also ready for removal.

I cannot guarantee the veracity of this statement, since I haven't found the source for it yet, but if it is true, then it would mean that SM can be spawned at a reasonable rate.

Apparently, the surgical and chemical modifications made on a SM candidate can take any time between 8 and 12 years. During this period, the initiate's training and the totality of his psycho-conditioning and indoctrination take place.
Following his surgery and psychic training, the SM initiate integrates the ranks of the chapter's tenth company as a scout, where his real training begin. It will usually take decades for the scout to become a full-fledged space marine.

Hence, I guess that it takes somewhere around 60 years to turn a random squishy human into a real SM.