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So I have been running a Lizardmen army for quite some time now, using two units of Saurus with hand weapon/shield, and one Saurus unit with spears. Recently I played around with the list, and was able to shuffle around enough points for me to now have all three Saurus units using spears. My list never had much trouble being competitive before, do you guys think that the spears are going to be effective additions to my army? The new list is as follows.


Lords
- Slann (375pts)
w/ 3 Disciplines of the Ancients

Heroes
- Scar-Veteran (178pts)
w/ Army Battle Standard Bearer, Shield, Cold One, Burning Blade of Chotec, Glittering Scales
- Scar-Veteran (138pts)
w/ Light Armor, Shield, Cold One, Sword of Swift Slaying
- Scar-Veteran (143pts)
w/ Light Armor, Shield, Cold One, Sword of the Hornet, Luckstone

Core Units
- 23 Saurus Warriors (306pts)
w/ Spears, Full Command
- 23 Saurus Warriors (306pts)
w/ Spears, Full Command
- 22 Saurus Warriors (294pts)
w/ Spears, Full Command
- 10 Skink Skirmishers (70pts)
- 10 Skink Skirmishers (70pts)
- 10 Skink Skirmishers (70pts)

Rare Units
- 2 Salamander Hunting Pack (150pts)
- 2 Salamander Hunting Pack (150pts)




BEFORE anyone begins to critique the rest of the list, and suggest any other changes, I first want to hear the argument about whether I should have the Saurus as in the list above, or if I should return to having the Saurus units two Hand weapon/shield, and one with spears. If that topic is not broached, then be sure that I will ignore your post. Thanks for the help guys.

I don't know how helpful this is, but it will get a more specific discussion going...

In the typical 18 strong saurus unit, I think it is pretty clear that the spear loses it's value a lot sooner than the ward save, especially if you charge. But with your 4 rank size I think the discussion is back on the table. Now you'll have the extra attacks from the spears for a few more wounds, and with more bodies, the ward is less needed to grind out.

Like I said, I don't really have an opinion, but maybe reframing your question with some context will help the discussion along.

Now that this has been said... I'm really curious why you have spent so many points on saurus, and have a slann, but yet you aren't fielding one of those saurus blocks as a temple guard.

My personal experience is that I never really get to use the spears, since I am either charging or the Saurus units would lose enough ranks before they even attack to not benefit from it. Spears also get expensive when you give it to multiple big units of Saurus.

What lore is the Slaan taking? And what disciplines? If he is running alone, I'd recommand you to give him the 2+ ward against shooting.
Instead of a Saurus BSB, make Slaan the BSB.
Scar Vets dont really need to be on cold ones, I'd suggest you save the points and buy Saurus.
If you drop the spears, you'd have the points to run a unit of 5 Chameleon skinks. I'd then drop a unit of normal skinks for another 5, Chameleons are very useful.

"Not to spear"
Actually, not to saurus at all =D

I wouldn't take spears, a spear unit is only better when its bigger than 18 models and not charging.

Interesting... I thought spears were better! Maybe only in 30-strong units?

well let us assume that you are 6 wide, 6 spears will get you about 1 extra kill but by losing the parry save you will lose one extra lizard killed. for a net of 0 combat resolution assuming you didnt charge.

also it is important to consider that you are pretty much always going second, so if your unit isnt at least large enough to saok the casualties and keep at least 18 your losing attacks.

personally i dont think spears are worth it.

I have had a hit-or-miss experience thus far with Spears. I don't typically run them in units of 25, though; usually in units of 21. As a force of habit I don't take all Spears but it might be interesting to see what it can do. I do question it's overall utility without supporting charges or maximized ranks. And with a lack of flank chargers, I think that at least one unit of HW/Shield would be better, to semi-serve that role.

Jackster wrote:
What lore is the Slaan taking? And what disciplines? If he is running alone, I'd recommand you to give him the 2+ ward against shooting.
Instead of a Saurus BSB, make Slaan the BSB.
Scar Vets dont really need to be on cold ones, I'd suggest you save the points and buy Saurus.
If you drop the spears, you'd have the points to run a unit of 5 Chameleon skinks. I'd then drop a unit of normal skinks for another 5, Chameleons are very useful.

The cold ones for Scar-Vet mounts are amazing. It add +2 to Armor without taking up magic item allowance and also makes the entire Saurus unit immune to Fear. The immunity to Fear alone make its worth it. Also the addition of a S4 attack is a plus since then I am not losing a supporting attack (unless in a challenge) as long as the Scar-Vet lives.

The BSB switch is interesting though. I may do that. Not sure yet.

Bastirous666 wrote:

Jackster wrote:
What lore is the Slaan taking? And what disciplines? If he is running alone, I'd recommand you to give him the 2+ ward against shooting.
Instead of a Saurus BSB, make Slaan the BSB.
Scar Vets dont really need to be on cold ones, I'd suggest you save the points and buy Saurus.
If you drop the spears, you'd have the points to run a unit of 5 Chameleon skinks. I'd then drop a unit of normal skinks for another 5, Chameleons are very useful.

The cold ones for Scar-Vet mounts are amazing. It add +2 to Armor without taking up magic item allowance and also makes the entire Saurus unit immune to Fear. The immunity to Fear alone make its worth it. Also the addition of a S4 attack is a plus since then I am not losing a supporting attack (unless in a challenge) as long as the Scar-Vet lives.

The BSB switch is interesting though. I may do that. Not sure yet.

You are cold blooded, LD 8 or 9 with BSB re-roll, fear shouldnt worry you, fear is nowhere as bad this edition. If you make Slaan the BSB give him Standard of Discipline for LD 10 inspiring presence.
Scar Vet loses Look out Sir if he is mounted, as he is a different troop type as the rest of the unit, so a single cannon ball can kill him.
If you want better armor, take Dragonhelm, Enchanted Shield or Gambler's armor.

Jackster wrote:
You are cold blooded, LD 8 or 9 with BSB re-roll, fear shouldnt worry you, fear is nowhere as bad this edition. If you make Slaan the BSB give him Standard of Discipline for LD 10 inspiring presence.
Scar Vet loses Look out Sir if he is mounted, as he is a different troop type as the rest of the unit, so a single cannon ball can kill him.
If you want better armor, take Dragonhelm, Enchanted Shield or Gambler's armor.

That still does not give me the beloved 1+ armor save (there have been tons of games where that 1 point less of armor would have ruined me), and on top of that I rarely come up against cannons, so I'm not too worried about that. Anyways thanks for the ideas, but really all I wanted to discuss was the spears.

Bastirous666 wrote:

Jackster wrote:
You are cold blooded, LD 8 or 9 with BSB re-roll, fear shouldnt worry you, fear is nowhere as bad this edition. If you make Slaan the BSB give him Standard of Discipline for LD 10 inspiring presence.
Scar Vet loses Look out Sir if he is mounted, as he is a different troop type as the rest of the unit, so a single cannon ball can kill him.
If you want better armor, take Dragonhelm, Enchanted Shield or Gambler's armor.

That still does not give me the beloved 1+ armor save (there have been tons of games where that 1 point less of armor would have ruined me), and on top of that I rarely come up against cannons, so I'm not too worried about that. Anyways thanks for the ideas, but really all I wanted to discuss was the spears.

Well it's your call, scar vets are awesome either way
I already presented my opinion of the spears earlier.

I totally believe that you need to maximize the ranks on the Spear units. While the ranks help with SCR I think that more kills will be better in the long run.