Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So, earlier on made a thread about doing Chaos Grey Knights which was met... well very harshly. So, was wondering what sorts of ideas people may have for deviating away from the cookie cutter knight in shining silver armor Grey Knights.

Is it even possible to do that while still staying within' fluff?

Well...no.

But you do have to remember that the GK aren't noble.

They are actually as bad as Chaos at times. Hell, they would burn an entire world just cause of one cultist.

I guess you could emphasize on that aspect of them. Show them as menacing, covered in fresh blood, etc.

Do a counts-as. Thousand Sons seems like a no-brainer if you like Chaos.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:Well...no.

But you do have to remember that the GK aren't noble.

They are actually as bad as Chaos at times. Hell, they would burn an entire world just cause of one cultist.

I guess you could emphasize on that aspect of them. Show them as menacing, covered in fresh blood, etc.

No they aren't. There's no indication that they would burn an entire world to get one cultist. Anyway, it's the Inquisition, Ordo Malleus, that does all the covering up. The Grey Knights arrive, kill the Daemons, and leave.

iproxtaco wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:Well...no.

But you do have to remember that the GK aren't noble.

They are actually as bad as Chaos at times. Hell, they would burn an entire world just cause of one cultist.

I guess you could emphasize on that aspect of them. Show them as menacing, covered in fresh blood, etc.

No they aren't. There's no indication that they would burn an entire world to get one cultist. Anyway, it's the Inquisition, Ordo Malleus, that does all the covering up. The Grey Knights arrive, kill the Daemons, and leave.

Ah my mistake then.

iproxtaco wrote: Anyway, it's the Inquisition, Ordo Malleus, that does all the covering up. The Grey Knights arrive, kill the Daemons, and leave.

Not always - isn't there that apocalypse formation of grey knights? They have a rule that once they've killed the greater daemons, they become under the control of the chaos player (to represent them "cleansing the taint" from their mortal allies). What a great rule to show the dark side of the grey knights. - that's kind of the point of them: they aren't white knights. they're grey (a little bit of darkness mixed in you see)

iproxtaco wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:Well...no.

But you do have to remember that the GK aren't noble.

They are actually as bad as Chaos at times. Hell, they would burn an entire world just cause of one cultist.

I guess you could emphasize on that aspect of them. Show them as menacing, covered in fresh blood, etc.

No they aren't. There's no indication that they would burn an entire world to get one cultist. Anyway, it's the Inquisition, Ordo Malleus, that does all the covering up. The Grey Knights arrive, kill the Daemons, and leave.

They also grind up sisters of battle and use their blood as talismens.

I do find it odd, that while they constantly in the GK codex mention that a Knight may fall if X Y or Z, but then goes and says it's never happened. It's like they're giving players something to work with, then snatch it away.

The librarian page is an excelent example of this.

Kapitan Montag wrote:

iproxtaco wrote: Anyway, it's the Inquisition, Ordo Malleus, that does all the covering up. The Grey Knights arrive, kill the Daemons, and leave.

Not always - isn't there that apocalypse formation of grey knights that once they've killed the greater daemons, they become under the control of the chaos player (to represent them "cleansing the taint" from their mortal allies. Great rule that showed the dark side of the grey knights. - that's kind of the point of them: they aren't white knights.

Never alluded to them being White Knights, but they certainly don't go around killing the populations of planets to find one cultist. They know what the Inquisition does, but there's only 1000 Grey Knights, and 1,000,000 worlds to protect, they don't have time to spend hunting some poor soul who accidentally saw a Daemon once. Besides, what the Ordo Malleus does is necessary. What the Imperium does isn't always justifiable, but this is.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Namica wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:Well...no.

But you do have to remember that the GK aren't noble.

They are actually as bad as Chaos at times. Hell, they would burn an entire world just cause of one cultist.

I guess you could emphasize on that aspect of them. Show them as menacing, covered in fresh blood, etc.

No they aren't. There's no indication that they would burn an entire world to get one cultist. Anyway, it's the Inquisition, Ordo Malleus, that does all the covering up. The Grey Knights arrive, kill the Daemons, and leave.

They also grind up sisters of battle and use their blood as talismens.

I do find it odd, that while they constantly in the GK codex mention that a Knight may fall if X Y or Z, but then goes and says it's never happened. It's like they're giving players something to work with, then snatch it away.

The librarian page is an excelent example of this.

No "they" don't. Grey Knights can't be corrupted.

Kapitan Montag wrote:

iproxtaco wrote: Anyway, it's the Inquisition, Ordo Malleus, that does all the covering up. The Grey Knights arrive, kill the Daemons, and leave.

Not always - isn't there that apocalypse formation of grey knights? They have a rule that once they've killed the greater daemons, they become under the control of the chaos player (to represent them "cleansing the taint" from their mortal allies). What a great rule to show the dark side of the grey knights. - that's kind of the point of them: they aren't white knights. they're grey (a little bit of darkness mixed in you see)

Huh??? I've never heard of this.

No "they" don't. Grey Knights can't be corrupted.

I'm fully aware. I was pointing out that the codex constantly says they could be, but it's never happened.

So, they litterally have to all be knights in Silver armor?

Anyone have ideas for "counts as"?

So far, I've heard well geared Death Watch, as well as Thousand Sons, both options that I love.

You can always expand on the "Ghost Knights" theme. That way, you can make them a bit more "evil" than they normally would be.

Here's an example:

A contingent of Grey Knights is called upon to cleanse a solar system near the Eye of Terror (or another major warp anomaly). The Knights emerge from the system bloody, but victorious, carrying with them the bodies of their slain brothers. Little do they know that an immense psychic force sweeping across the system (warp turbulence, an emanation from the Eye, or whatever floats your boat) has "duplicated" all the Grey Knights slain in the system.

Ok stop for a second. I realize that sounds really stupid. But think of it like this: Mordrak's psychic powers essentially resurrected his slain brethren from Mortrain, which now manifest themselves as ghostly psychic echoes that fight against Mordrak's enemies. Imagine such a phenomenon expanded to a much larger scale. Okay, back to the story...

These spectral grey knights have no memories of their deaths or their role in the cleansing of the system. In fact, they still think they are alive, fighting the good fight for the Emperor. Left only with the pure, righteous hatred of their former order, they begin to crusade across space, oblivious to friend or foe - convinced that all who stand before them are servants of Chaos and worse.

There. Done. You can have your "chaos-y" grey knights without breaking any fluff. No knights have actually fallen, and the "ghosts" don't realize what they're doing because they aren't really Grey Knights - just incomplete echoes. This way, you can easily have them fight any force on the excuse that they see everyone as opposed to Humanity and the Emperor.

That might work using the vanilla SM codex, but they don't have all the nifty of actual GKs... being that they're just "incomplete echos" and what-not.

However, a GK's soul is pure and incorruptible. Doesn't matter what Chaos tries to do, living or dead, Chaos can't feth with a GK. No GK zombies, no GK Chaos-spawned ghosts, no Psy-marionette GK corpses, no GK armor getting daemonically possessed.

The Emperor protects... and of the Grey Knights, He protects especially well.

Psienesis wrote:That might work using the vanilla SM codex, but they don't have all the nifty of actual GKs... being that they're just "incomplete echos" and what-not.

However, a GK's soul is pure and incorruptible. Doesn't matter what Chaos tries to do, living or dead, Chaos can't feth with a GK. No GK zombies, no GK Chaos-spawned ghosts, no Psy-marionette GK corpses, no GK armor getting daemonically possessed.

The Emperor protects... and of the Grey Knights, He protects especially well.

I didn't say Chaos ghosts. I just said ghosts. To put it shortly: An army of Mordrak's Ghost Knights. And I'm not sure where you got the idea that "incomplete ghosts" means they don't have GK equipment. I just meant they don't have complete personalities (as much as any Grey Knight would have in any case). Besides, Ghost Knights have all the same stuff that GKs do.

When I said "chaos-y" I meant that Ghost Knights would have much more of an excuse to simply slay and kill anyone in their path, since they're fething angry spirits that terrify even Mordrak himself.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:Well...no.

But you do have to remember that the GK aren't noble.

They are actually as bad as Chaos at times. Hell, they would burn an entire world just cause of one cultist.

I guess you could emphasize on that aspect of them. Show them as menacing, covered in fresh blood, etc.

They actually were noble until Matt Ward screwed with the story line like the insane fan boy he is.

Namica wrote:So, earlier on made a thread about doing Chaos Grey Knights which was met... well very harshly. So, was wondering what sorts of ideas people may have for deviating away from the cookie cutter knight in shining silver armor Grey Knights.

Is it even possible to do that while still staying within' fluff?

What about batted GKs? You could model them in the throws of a crushing defeat. Missing shoulder pads, blood dripping from under ther helmets.

Thousand sons are a shoe in for "count as" for GK I swear if I ever make a choas marine army TS is it

With Mordrak's ghosts, it's an important distinction to note that Mordrak himself is a GK. What is unclear is if these are their actual ghosts, or just his memories of these men given form and power by his psychic will. In the former case, well, these are ghosts of GKs still killing Daemons and Renegades, and probably won't go off to kill the non-corrupt or such.. In the latter, well, Mordrak is still a GK, so still incorruptible, whether these "ghosts" are real ghosts or just the psychic might of a madman.

Mr. S Baldrick wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:Well...no.

But you do have to remember that the GK aren't noble.

They are actually as bad as Chaos at times. Hell, they would burn an entire world just cause of one cultist.

I guess you could emphasize on that aspect of them. Show them as menacing, covered in fresh blood, etc.

They actually were noble until Matt Ward screwed with the story line like the insane fan boy he is.

Not really.

Actually the grey knights burned 3 worlds to kill one company of stormtroopsers, plus countless imperial troop transports and navy listen posts. Thats the Grey Knights. Not the inquisitoon. Please go back and read the 1st war of Armageddon fluff piece.

And i posted on your other thread of why the grey knights could be used as a choas army. I might even do it. Paint them bright silver, but have choas icons on them. Man it will piss some people off. The Corrupted Grey Knight, or maybe the Black Knights.

This whole thing is, I feel, one of the problems of doing a Codex for such a specific faction, like Grey Knights. With Imperial Guard, Space Marines, Chaos, Eldar, most of the codexes really, you can take the army and make it yours. Your own chapter/craftworld/regiment/whatever. People don't understand that Grey Knights really are just Grey Knights. There are a set number of them. They don't have successor chapters. The only thing the fluff allows for in terms of making them 'yours' is doing a specific company under one of the Captains or Grand Masters. Counts as is the only way you're going to have non-GK GK and have it make any kind of sense.

ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:Actually the grey knights burned 3 worlds to kill one company of stormtroopsers, plus countless imperial troop transports and navy listen posts. Thats the Grey Knights. Not the inquisitoon. Please go back and read the 1st war of Armageddon fluff piece.

No it's the Inquisition alright.

And i posted on your other thread of why the grey knights could be used as a choas army. I might even do it. Paint them bright silver, but have choas icons on them. Man it will piss some people off. The Corrupted Grey Knight, or maybe the Black Knights.

Good for you, I'll be expecting pics.

Can we not just set some guidelines for stuff like this?
You don't have to follow them obviously but if you want army fluff that fits with established background then follow it.

It says 3 grey knight strike cruisers killed the ships. Not 3 Inquisition cruisers. 3 grey knight cruisers.

I am going to make it my personal mision to write up fluff for Chaos Knights.

Deadshot wrote:I am going to make it my personal mision to write up fluff for Chaos Knights.

I support this. I'd like to see it too.

I am going to make it my mission to have another cup of tea before i got to bed...

purplefood wrote:I am going to make it my mission to have another cup of tea before i got to bed...

diet coke for me please

purplefood wrote:I am going to make it my mission to have another cup of tea before i got to bed...

That actually sounds pretty good.

ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:

purplefood wrote:I am going to make it my mission to have another cup of tea before i got to bed...

That actually sounds pretty good.

Might have a biscuit as well.

purplefood wrote:I am going to make it my mission to have another cup of tea before i got to bed...

I'll drink to that. Now where's me Red Bull.......