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this is an argument on warseer:http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=302948
basically

Warseer wrote:So in the Faq:

Q: Some special rules, magic items etc. have an effect at the
beginning of the battle, or before the game starts. When should
these effects take place? (143)

A: After both armies are deployed and any Deployment special
rules have occurred but before the roll for first turn.

As per this, do you think that Teclis now would (undisputably) be allowed to choose his magic based on what army he fights (as per RAW)?

Not trying to start any wars but i just want the opinions of warseers on this ruling and why you think the way you do.

and teclis' rule is:

High Elf Army Book wrote:"Teclis is a Lvl 4 wizard and may Choose any one of the eight lores of magic or high magic before the game starts. whichever lore he chooses he knows all six spells."

But he doesn't know the signature spell
Emphasis mine
What do you dakkanaughts think

Teclis picks his lore after all deployment, as it says in the FAQ.
He is loremaster of that lore, but doesn't know the signature spell usualy. I would say he could still swap a spell for the signature spell if he wanted to.

As far as I know, he can still swap for the sig if he wants.

Teclis, now with 20% more brokeness

Hasn't it been this way for awhile now?

First time I ever heard of it so I thought I should let people know and confirm that I have got it right

I don't see how you get signature spell. I'm not sure if he's a Loremaster as per the special rules (which would give him all). But sig spells can only be swapped if you roll for them.

Teclis does not have the "Loremaster" special rule.

The errata only added:
Page 46 – High Elf Magic, Bullet Point
Change to “An army that includes at least one Mage or
Archmage adds 1 to all dispel results.”
Page 66 – Teclis, High Loremaster
Add “Teclis is an Archmage.” to the start of the second
paragraph.

As near as I can tell, Teclis has no way to get a signature spell.
Losing the signature is a pretty good hit to tec; one I'd gladly give up to let him pick his lore 'before the game starts'.

-Matt

Yep. For 475 points you can have WHFB's ultimate spell caster. Not too much grosser than a kitted-out slaan, but still too gross to not be considered OP.

Maneaters with poison/sniper? Eliminate that pesky hand-waver for me, please? Thank you.

On whether he can swap for signature? That one goes to the lawyers. "After choosing replacements for duplicate spells..." p. 490 BRB. This is going to spawn the lawyerism. It doesn't specifically say that you have to have been able to swap duplicates, so it could be 'Teclis doesn't do choose replacements, so after not choosing any he'll swap for a sig spell', while the other half would be 'if swapping isn't part of your process, then you don't have the chance'. "...a wizard can choose to substitute one of the spells he rolls" 'Teclis doesn't roll' etc.

Ruleswise, there is no absolutely definitive answer - yet.

I don't play as elves, and Tec's never been THAT much of a thorn in my side (actually it's usually more the player USING Tec than it is the wizard himself, TFG's and the like - NOT ALWAYS, of course, but much of the time).

I can see why he would and why he wouldn't.
-The faq is post-8e, so if they wanted him to have loremaster they would have said so, and all references to a wiz getting the swap are for wizzies that roll for their spells.
- p. 490 "A signature spell is so intrinsic to the lore's character that we can assume any practitioner of that lore will know how to cast it".

Which do you think is more dangerous warboss either a fully kitted out slann or teclis

When running sniper/poison maneaters, I find Teclis is more dangerous, but easier to kill than a fully kitted slaan (Tec T2 , W3, right?). There's only a 1:6 chance of rolling a double, and if there's power dice left over after the IF cast, it sort of forces you to have an abundance of dispel dice for whatever spell he casts last. He's gross and OP for his cost, maybe even the worst power/cost ratio in WHFB, but he's hardly an absolutely game-winning model. (All just my opinion).

I run my maneaters because they're great at range and no slouches in combat. They're terrific anti-caster ranged attackers, and they're great at drawing fire from other units. When you've got caster-sniping ogres, giants, mournfang cav, and an ironblaster - it's a tough choice for an opponent. If they're running teclis, I can pretty much be sure their ranged is coming at the maneaters, which means most of my other units can get to melee relatively unmolested.

Don't a lot of tournies just specify that Teclis' lore has to be on the army list, though? It's an easy fix...

The only time I faced Tec in a tourney the player already had his lore chosen. Don't know if it was because he had to.

RiTides wrote:Don't a lot of tournies just specify that Teclis' lore has to be on the army list, though? It's an easy fix...

I'd like to know this as well, if anyone else has faced Tec in a tourney.

The answer to the above is:
Its up to who ever is setting up the tournament.