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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/21 16:39:58
Subject: Beast 09, Why?
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Widowmaker
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Ok so i want some input from some Vet and good players of Khador.
I see alot of Khador players swearing by Beast 09 and saying he is the best Jack we have.
Why? i fail to see how. he is a Juggernaut on Crank. i would honestly take a juggy over Beast 09.
the Juggy can ravage a heavy jack fairly easy. and if i am running my lists i will be runnign atleast one destroyer or a Behemoth most times.
so why is Beast so much better? he has Reach and Threasher? so? threasher is great against infantry. LOS and weapon reach. yes he is devestating.
but Khador jacks are slow. he has to survive long enough to make it to the infantry unit that can out run him and swarm him easily and make him a wreck marker.
his Imprint is only useful against living warriors. my main opponent is Cryx and he favors his Bane thralls. this opponent is also a very intelligent and good player.
he does not see how Beast 09 is our best Jack. i think he is on par with the other character jacks. i favor Behemoth personally, he's my Swiss army 'Jack xD
So i may have missed a few points im at work and don't have my cards off hand. but i ask, WHY? tell me why the commonality is Beast 09 is the best we have?
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Warmachine: Khador 6 casters ~150pts in models(Including Merc Solos)
Malifaux: Ramos |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/21 17:26:06
Subject: Re:Beast 09, Why?
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Savage Khorne Berserker Biker
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Beast has these attributes over the Juggernaut:
- MAT 7
- Runs for free
- Thresher
- Gets a free advance if damaged by any attack unless it occurs while Beast is moving
Now, the question is if he's worth the extra 4 points. To answer that question, it highly, highly depends on the caster being used. For example, pIrusk wants a melee 'jack to slap Superiority on. Karchev wants more 'jacks rather than character 'jacks since he's a force multiplier for 'jacks with Tow and Unearthly Rage. pButcher wants focus efficient 'jacks, ideally those with chain attacks (Kodiak and Berserker).
MAT 7 is a big plus because Beast and Drago have the highest base MAT on all of our 'jacks. Spriggan gets pseudo +2 MAT on the charge, but that's only for one attack and for one turn.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/21 17:27:53
Subject: Beast 09, Why?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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His Imprint may not work against Banes, but his Reach does.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/21 17:35:27
Subject: Beast 09, Why?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Misery. Missouri. Who can tell the difference.
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Well, he has a huge POW 19 threat range the turn he charges with the right caster. You give Beast superiority that is 9 inch charge with 2 inch reach. That is hitting 11 inches away from your own lines tying up hard hitting infantry units and groups of light warjacks and warbeasts. With full focus you are killing off troll blood champs, light warbeasts and warjacks which can break the back of most 35 point armies.
If he gets in with a couple hvy warbeasts or jacks he can really tear up before getting torn up himself. Plus if his caster gets too close on that charge you are looking at a possible caster kill. Thresher with his weapon and Superiority = death to most things.
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251 point Khador Army
245 points Ret Army
Warmachine League Record: 85 Wins 29 Losses
A proud member of the "I won with Zerkova" club with and without Sylss.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/21 17:55:16
Subject: Re:Beast 09, Why?
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Buttons Should Be Brass, Not Gold!
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IMHO, for me it is mostly because he has reach, free run and +1MAT. The rest is all gravy.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/21 18:38:44
Subject: Re:Beast 09, Why?
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Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh
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I like to use him with eSorscha. The affinity + the special bond make him devastating in the field.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/21 19:16:14
Subject: Beast 09, Why?
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Widowmaker
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Alright so, i stand by my previous statement. he is on par with our other Character jacks, maybe a little above.
I tend to Favor Sorscha, Epic more recently then before. i have proxied Beast 09 in my lists and he has come up lacking. could be my playstyle and lack of seeing him fully used but i tend to favor my Swiss Army 'Jack, Behemoth.
eSorscha [6]
-Behemoth
-War Dog
pEiryss
Drakhun w/o
Great Bears
WG Infantry
-WGI UA
-WGI WA (x3)
Unkle Jo
Manhunter
Will swap dog and Manhunter for Eliminators when they released. As well i can swap the Ternions in and take Drakhun out if need be.
thats my current list in the making. i am going to playtest some more with Beast 09 but im still leaning towards keeping Behemoth in my list. on top of that if i swap then im gonna need to make some adjustments. i would get rerolls on Charge and Slam power attacks...
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Warmachine: Khador 6 casters ~150pts in models(Including Merc Solos)
Malifaux: Ramos |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/22 02:52:00
Subject: Re:Beast 09, Why?
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[DCM]
GW Public Relations Manager (Privateer Press Mole)
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Many things in WM (it seems) simply have to be played to be appreciated. Maelok doesn't look impressive on paper--but is completely legit on the table. I've played against Beast several times--and I would highly suggest you give him a whirl.
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Adepticon TT 2009---Best Heretical Force
Adepticon 2010---Best Appearance Warhammer Fantasy Warbands
Adepticon 2011---Best Team Display
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/22 09:03:11
Subject: Re:Beast 09, Why?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Reach is kind of a big deal. And Thresher. And he looks cooler. And he runs for free.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/22 14:12:04
Subject: Beast 09, Why?
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Manhunter
Eastern PA
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beast 09 is not for everyone. i think behemoth sees more general play because he is more versatile. that being said beast 09 has very good use with eSorscha. i personally do NOT run him with her since i prefer a meta choice of the spriggan currently but i have used beast in the past. the biggest thing for me is the imprint, that MAT 7 and the reach. boosted MAT 7's from the POW 19 reach ice axe usuallys spells death for monst casters on the first hit, and if not death, than a possible stationary effect from the ice axe.
with esorcha i think behemoth is the better choice if your bringing loads of heavy hitters to the table. when i run esorscha at 50 i run this:
Forward Kommander Sorscha
Devastator (bonded)
Spriggan
War dog
Battle Mechaniks (Leader and 3 Grunts)
Great Bears of Gallowswood
Winter Guard Infantry (Leader and 9 Grunts)
Winter Guard Infantry Officer & Standard
3 Winter Guard Infantry Rocketeers
Winter Guard Rifle Corps (Leader and 9 Grunts)
Eiryss, Angel of Retribution
Gorman di Wulfe, Rogue Alchemist
Kovnik Jozef Grigorovich
Yuri the Axe
i tend to bond the devestator, since dealing with ARM 25 is bad enough for most enemy models, now those models are stationary if they dont finish the job. the spriggan is there for a hitter that has flare to deal with stealth, the RC get shatterstorm and have a decent range and hit well with joe. WGDS because why not and a few more heavy hitters to capatilize on her feat.
i have run a 3 jack battlegroup with her including the behemoth, and the outside assasination run with behemoth on feat turn is very doable if you play risky and can catch some people off guard. a couple weeks ago i had pSevvy get a hair too close and catch one to the face that killed him.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/24 15:04:39
Subject: Beast 09, Why?
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Druid Warder
SLC UT
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Reach is a very big deal. It is +1.5" of threat, a lot of different angles for charging, and it creates a big footprint that you threaten and engage. That there is worth a point.
Beast-09 also has Thresher, meaning that it simply is better at killing more than the Juggernaught and Behemoth are. To add to this, MAT 7 makes it hit more often with that bigger footprint. The Heavy Boiler and the out-of-turn movement means it can get up the field faster than many other Faction options.
All this and it still has its Imprint, making it extremely effective at taking out swaths of infantry. It mainly is a warjack that is great at killing other warjacks, and killing infantry. The flexibility is not in the range/melee pairing, but in the heavy-cracking/infantry-lawnmowing pairing.
You also need to note that most Khador casters are fairly focus-starved. This means that, while you can take a Juggernaguth, it may be one or two of your only warjacks in your army if you run more competitively or with most their casters. So as I often see it done, if you are going to only take one or two heavies (such as I often see with the Sorschas, Irusk, eVladimir and Strakhov), it is best to "go for broke" on them and take the best damned one you can get.
And stuff.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/24 15:16:16
Subject: Re:Beast 09, Why?
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Widowmaker
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i think i might drop the Drakhun w/o and the manhunter for Widowmakers and the Marksman. so the list would look like this.
eSorscha [6]
-Behemoth
-War Dog
pEiryss
Widowmakers
Marksman
Great Bears
WG Infantry
-WGI UA
-WGI WA (x3)
Unkle Jo
i don't remember if the Marksman is 1 or 2 but if hes 3 i can drop the dog for him.
how is Yuri? i think i would like to run the Kayazy Eliminators for 3pts over Yuri.
i prefer eSorscha for the reason of the infantry buff Iron Flesh =] 19 DEF WG DS says What? thats a problem i had with the DS is survivability... Bob and Weave + IF gives me that. And her feat is really nice, it turns those 1-2 damage after ARM into lethal 2 and 4 instead =] i have 2 pSorscha's one is from the 2-player box so that one will get converted to eSorscha =]
derek wrote:And he looks cooler.
really? the pose for Beast 09 is horrid... he looks like a constipoated old man.
i will be doing a conversion on my Plastic Juggy from the 2-player.
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Warmachine: Khador 6 casters ~150pts in models(Including Merc Solos)
Malifaux: Ramos |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/24 17:16:39
Subject: Re:Beast 09, Why?
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Wraith
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Better be a hell of a conversion, cuz otherwise its still pSorcha.
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Bam, said the lady!
DR:70S+GM++B+I+Pw40k09/f++D++A(WTF)/hWD153R+++T(S)DM++++
Dakka, what is good in life?
To crush other websites,
See their user posts driven before you,
And hear the lamentation of the newbs.
-Frazzled-10/22/09 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/25 02:56:27
Subject: Re:Beast 09, Why?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Misery. Missouri. Who can tell the difference.
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Here is what I did for my beast 09 conversion from a plastic kit. All the rivets were replaced, more rivets were added The axe was extended and more mechanics were added to the axe.
If you want more pictutes just pm me.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2011/10/25 03:01:12
251 point Khador Army
245 points Ret Army
Warmachine League Record: 85 Wins 29 Losses
A proud member of the "I won with Zerkova" club with and without Sylss.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/25 07:45:43
Subject: Beast 09, Why?
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Druid Warder
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OP im gonna take a stab and say youve never seen Beast 09 in person have you?
Beast 09 is THE most poseable warjack in Warmachine next to the Extreme juggy and destroyer. the studio version was posed unimpressively
i saw someone in the PP forums pose his Beast 09 to mirror eSorscha's pose even!
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Hey, I just met you,
and this is crazy,
but I'm a demon,
possess you, maybe?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/25 14:43:48
Subject: Re:Beast 09, Why?
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Widowmaker
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skrulnik wrote:Better be a hell of a conversion, cuz otherwise its still pSorcha.
i have extensively looked over the two models. cosmetically there is not really any difference from pSorscha and eSorscha. eSorscha is on a rock/ice outcropping. thats about it, out side the pose.
Pipboy101 wrote:Here is what I did for my beast 09 conversion from a plastic kit. All the rivets were replaced, more rivets were added The axe was extended and more mechanics were added to the axe.
If you want more pictutes just pm me.
Nice Conversion!
the Juggy in my 2-player starter box is probly what i will be doing my conversion on.
Bakerofish wrote: OP im gonna take a stab and say youve never seen Beast 09 in person have you?
Beast 09 is THE most poseable warjack in Warmachine next to the Extreme juggy and destroyer. the studio version was posed unimpressively
i saw someone in the PP forums pose his Beast 09 to mirror eSorscha's pose even!
i had an idea, i been checking the Beast 09 bits on PP Bit store.
i have a metal juggy that might have gotten converted but probly not.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/10/25 14:44:52
Warmachine: Khador 6 casters ~150pts in models(Including Merc Solos)
Malifaux: Ramos |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/25 15:03:42
Subject: Re:Beast 09, Why?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Misery. Missouri. Who can tell the difference.
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ratch wrote: Nice Conversion!
the Juggy in my 2-player starter box is probly what i will be doing my conversion on.
I just used the plastic Juggy also. I will PM you the 360 degree shots of the mini and the stuff I used. I will say the rivet work is the most time consuming of the conversion but so totally worth it.
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251 point Khador Army
245 points Ret Army
Warmachine League Record: 85 Wins 29 Losses
A proud member of the "I won with Zerkova" club with and without Sylss.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/25 21:06:22
Subject: Beast 09, Why?
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Widowmaker
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nice!
my conversion will probly be very simple. ill order an extra set of Black Ivan Spikey shoulders, ill be ordering the head, upper and lower arms from bits, then do some custom greenstuffing for some of the details. still debating the pose ill go for. maybe a "Thresher" pose where he is Lumbar jack holding the axe. i want to Mod the Axe as well, give it a longer spike or something on the back side. i might mod it to look like a fireman's axe =]
yeah, there is not much difference between pSorscha and eSorscha, so my 2-player box pSorscha will be converted. this will amount to adding some details to her shoulders and a huge collar... the collar i don't have the skill to do. but a piece of plasticard and some GS and i have bigger Shoulder plates. oph and god forbid i miss the icey Pedestal. BTW the only reason i am not just buying the $11 model is because i have a pSorscha and the 2-player box gave me the new posed one. if i buy the eSorscha then i have 2 pSorschas -_-;
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/10/25 21:10:53
Warmachine: Khador 6 casters ~150pts in models(Including Merc Solos)
Malifaux: Ramos |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/11/03 18:54:44
Subject: Beast 09, Why?
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Been Around the Block
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Listen, not to sound like a jerk or anything, but pSorscha and eSorscha can only be considered the same in friendly games.
In situations where appearances matter more like tournaments, p/e Sorscha are not the same. There are a handful of differences that stand out immediately.
1. Pose. eSorscha has a pretty terrible pose, but its very different from the pSorscha pose. Worth keeping in mind since in timed turns that pose alone can remind you what you're fighting.
2. Clothing. In addition to the shoulder plate with the enhanced rank insignia, eSorscha also sports greatcoat differences and armor differences. With pSorscha the coat is broken into two separate parts ( the top cape thing and then the coat ) with two trims whereas the eSorscha greatcoat has the kind of banded look near the hem that Butcher has. The armor's primary difference can be seen on places like the guantlets.
3. Base. I guess. The little icy/rocky outcropping.
=]
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/11/03 19:14:26
Subject: Beast 09, Why?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Misery. Missouri. Who can tell the difference.
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correlation2 wrote:Listen, not to sound like a jerk or anything, but pSorscha and eSorscha can only be considered the same in friendly games.
In situations where appearances matter more like tournaments, p/e Sorscha are not the same. There are a handful of differences that stand out immediately.
1. Pose. eSorscha has a pretty terrible pose, but its very different from the pSorscha pose. Worth keeping in mind since in timed turns that pose alone can remind you what you're fighting.
2. Clothing. In addition to the shoulder plate with the enhanced rank insignia, eSorscha also sports greatcoat differences and armor differences. With pSorscha the coat is broken into two separate parts ( the top cape thing and then the coat ) with two trims whereas the eSorscha greatcoat has the kind of banded look near the hem that Butcher has. The armor's primary difference can be seen on places like the guantlets.
3. Base. I guess. The little icy/rocky outcropping.
=]
The second her feat goes off it will remind the player whom he/she is playing. Honsetly, unless there is a big difference in weapons like the prime mini only have ranged attacks and the epic model only having H2H attacks I don't see the harm of playing the model you like. If he can convert the model into a better looking model than the epic one then more power to him. It is always good to have both models when playing some that is too lazy to remember especially when they can just ask for the card.
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251 point Khador Army
245 points Ret Army
Warmachine League Record: 85 Wins 29 Losses
A proud member of the "I won with Zerkova" club with and without Sylss.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/11/04 02:47:22
Subject: Beast 09, Why?
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Been Around the Block
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I can't imagine why you'd want to stop in timed turns to check out the opponent's card when you've already memorized what the caster does.
Again, in casual play you can literally use anything you and your opponent agree on. In the League and Tournament rules that PP puts out, a TO has to clear any conversions and such. There's also the rule that the model in question has to be at least 50% the original model - pSorscha with plasticard is in no way shape or form 50% of the eSorscha model.
In regards to feats, the difference between p/e Sorscha's feats is momentous. You're not going to throw your heavies in eSorscha's feat so they can be 1-2 shot by charging infantry, whereas you might soak up pSorscha's with the intent to shake the stationary effect.
Overall, it isn't laziness on anyone's part. Expecting another player to memorize aspects of your army because you choose not to properly represent them is absurd. All a player has to do ( or a TO, or whatever ) is say "no, you need the actual model" and then you're stuck with pSorscha and no way of playing eSorscha. It's always better to have the legitimate model in backup of any proxies or conversions you may endeavor to own.
In fact, I'd wager the differences are even more important on models like Sorscha where she does use the same weapon from her prime version to her epic. It's not like Vlad where in one form he has two weapons, and in the other he has one. That makes the two pretty identifiable. By contrast, Sorscha has no change in Frostfang from p to e.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/01/02 21:32:52
Subject: Re:Beast 09, Why?
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Man O' War
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as a khador player i like beast 09, but i agree, i dont see how he is better than black ivan or the behemoth. it really depends on your opponant
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Khador 75p
Menoth 35p
Circle 25p
Legion 25p |
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