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As the title says, what are your hopes for the chaos codex(es)

Legion specific rules
Dreadnoughts
TH/SS on Terminators
Land Speeders
Dark Apostles
Land Raider Variant (20 models!)

I doubt we'll see a CSM codex in 5th.

But, if we did, I'd want them to take JustDave's fandex, throw in some artwork and fluff, and publish it.

Get the guy who wrote space wolves to do it.

Power creep AND sensical units/rules/fluff. Is nice amirite?

terranarc wrote:Get the guy who wrote space wolves to do it.

Power creep AND sensical units/rules/fluff. Is nice amirite?

Phil Kelly wrote Wolves, Orks, Eldar and Dark Eldar. He's pretty much my hero, and him doing Chaos would be beautiful. Guy knows how to balance fluff with effective rules.

Brother SRM wrote:

terranarc wrote:Get the guy who wrote space wolves to do it.

Power creep AND sensical units/rules/fluff. Is nice amirite?

Phil Kelly wrote Wolves, Orks, Eldar and Dark Eldar. He's pretty much my hero, and him doing Chaos would be beautiful. Guy knows how to balance fluff with effective rules.

There was a thread on B&C about a gent who went to Games Day and spoke with Mat Ward about the Chaos 'dex; circumstantial evidence from the conversation suggests that it'll be Phil Kelly writing it.

He's also rumored to be doing Black Templars.

Some would say "too" effective rules. 4th ed Eldar damn near broke the game, SW did break it, and DE continued the mech trend

I'd be happy if eithe wrote the codex, as long as it has some interest to it. However no th/ss termis, itd be like giving us assault cannon. We're not spiky marines!

But TH/SS was post-heresy. Chaos just simply doesn't have them.

Yep, whic his why I said it was like giving us assault cannon or land speeders. If you are doing "legions" chaos does not have them.

4th ed Eldar damn near broke the game

No, just the harlequins. After three games against them I passed on any game against Eldar that used them.
Call me whiney but, having my entire army crushed by one squad of Harlequins was all the evidence I needed that they should never have been brought back.

"But, dude, the models are so cool!" *hands me a blister*

"Yeah, they really live up to the whole 'grimdark' you're always complaining about." *rolls eyes... puts the dumb clown back on the shelf*

1. Unique Legion specific rules and units

2. New (well written) and original Chaos background, preferably by Phil Kelly

2. LOST AND THE DAMNED

3. DARK APOSTLES and Legion characters, not done in the same way as Codex: SM though.

4. More Daemon Engines

5. Marked Daemons, slighly less powerful than in the Daemons codex, notably so the Word Bearers can have a fluffy army once again? Perhaps they can have some bonuses for summoned Daemons.

6. Either a section of the codex for Chaos Renegades or a FULL CODEX later. Please, anything but a White Dwarf update. They have potential.

Brother SRM wrote:

terranarc wrote:Get the guy who wrote space wolves to do it.

Power creep AND sensical units/rules/fluff. Is nice amirite?

Phil Kelly wrote Wolves, Orks, Eldar and Dark Eldar. He's pretty much my hero, and him doing Chaos would be beautiful. Guy knows how to balance fluff with effective rules.

Wolf Wolfborn on his Wolf with his Wolf Claws and Wolftooth Necklace?

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Brother SRM wrote:

terranarc wrote:Get the guy who wrote space wolves to do it.

Power creep AND sensical units/rules/fluff. Is nice amirite?

Phil Kelly wrote Wolves, Orks, Eldar and Dark Eldar. He's pretty much my hero, and him doing Chaos would be beautiful. Guy knows how to balance fluff with effective rules.

Wolf Wolfborn on his Wolf with his Wolf Claws and Wolftooth Necklace?

You forgot to spice it with a little bit of Wolf.

Deffdred - not just the harlies, but the SMF abuse vehicle known as the Falcon. When you can move and fire, downgrading any hit to a glancing meaning you needed a 5,5/5,6/6,6 to kill it, and the 4th ed area terrain rules meaning the skimmer gets to hide behind a 1" thick wood and cant be shot - Phil broke the damn game with that book. Absolutely everything that made 4th ed suck was abused by the Eldar army in spades.

He then broke 5th ed with SW

TBH, I would like them to put more "Chaos" into it. Now days Chaos is defined as dudes in black armour.
*sigh*, i miss the good old days.

Cerebrium wrote:But TH/SS was post-heresy. Chaos just simply doesn't have them.

Fulgrim made a Thunder Hammer, so they certainly weren't post heresy.

I'd like to see Elite cult units as well as Troops.

Some thoughts, not all original.

-Chaos Lords and Sorceror Lords to be given more chaotic options, and more legion-specific wargear.

-Let them unlock a retinue that can be played as a unit or split between squads like wolf guard. Let these models take upgrades that make them chirugeons, preachers, apostles, minor sorcerors, fighty champions or dark mechanicum priests.

-Make possessed a unit upgrade like wulfen, gaining extra strength and attacks for a price.

I could just go on, but these should do for now.

The things that I would enjoy are-

Chaos cultists. Just cheap guys with guardsmen stats and a worse armor save, but allow for chaotic power for them to use. Ala DOW2 they can chant/pray to give bonuses to other units but it takes their whole turn. Sacrificing models out of the unit for effects which makes them more like an ammunition to expend upon the enemy.

Make Daemons specific to their Gods again! I don't like these generic Daemons, sure the models can represent it, but it is just not the same!

A Dark Mechanicus presence in the codex would be nice, blight drones or Brass scorpions of Khorne. Barring that, some fluff!

Special characters that mess with the FOC, open up room for true Alpha Legion/Night Lords/ Iron warriors.

To name just a few things.

I agree with Norn King that it needs more of a choas feel, ie more favour, mutiple builds sort of idea.

Generally i would say make the Army list a bit more fluffy, make it a bit more customizable, more wargear choices for a chaos sorcerer maybe make them as strong as other psykers?
And fix the Daemon weapon please.. I find the rules okay but when i look at the rules for Grey Knight Daemon weapons i feel cheated.
Maybe make Artificier armour avaible? Isn't there something with Aritficier armours are from the Heresy-era?

i would like to see a change in our HS choice's, mainly more Deamon stuff. i mean we are the best warriors of Chaos, besides the stronger Deamons and all we got was a AV12 walker that's special atribute was that it had a battlecannon and was Posessed.

i want to see God specific stuff, like Blight drones and Brass scorpions. that will allow me then to get some good Chaos modles that are useable in all games.

The OP should change the name if this topic to 6th edition hopes as that is when CSM will be released. Expect nothing else until then.

My main request would be for Ward to not be involved in any shape or form. Fluff wise we’d get poorly written stories along the lines of Fulgrim carving his name into Guilliman’s heart before roaming around destroying planets in the Ultramar sector. Rule wise, he under costs units, writes low quality rules and thus would be completely unable to deliver a quality product.

I’d like the structure of the CSM rules to be improved a bit. CSM hasn’t largely changed very much from their third edition codex (with the 3.5 and 4th codex largely mirroring it). At the moment I feel there’s not enough to differentiate it from a loyalist MEQ book aside from physical models (and a small handful of CSM specific units and upgrades). I’d like to see a greater focus on daemonic upgrades and smaller elite units (which is how Chaos appears in the fluff). The CSM book in my opinion should turn the classic MEQ structure on its head and operate as a unique force in its own right (just like the Grey Knights book).

candy.man wrote:The OP should change the name if this topic to 6th edition hopes as that is when CSM will be released. Expect nothing else until then.

I meant that it was the 5th Chaos Space Marine codex to be released, sorry for any confusion

Wouldn't it technically be 6th ed, as it will be released during/for the 6th ed rules?

EDIT: Sorry, got ninja'd by the last 2 posts.

Grakmar wrote:I doubt we'll see a CSM codex in 5th.

But, if we did, I'd want them to take JustDave's fandex, throw in some artwork and fluff, and publish it.

I have to second this.

... What?

I don't play Chaos, but I know someone who does, and I have to say, the biggest thing I want to see return is Lost and the Damned.

Something to counter psykers with? At the moment, I think it's the one thing (besides most things mentioned above) that bothers me the most about the current chaos codex. In the last edition we atleast had the Warp Blade (Tzeentch specific, pyskers within 12'' had to roll a D6 when using powers, and on a 1-3 they got perils and the power was nullified) and probably some other counter against psykers. In the next codex, I'd like to see something like the Shadow in the Warp that tyranids have, or maybe psykers suffer perils on any roll of double (both sides), to represent that the warp is close and using it is even more dangerous when chaos is around.

I think that Sorcerors, what with being dedicated to the Chaos gods and all, should be more immune to Perils than other psykers. A psychic counter attack rather than defence would fit in with the army better I think. And I'd like to see some use made of the Daemonic Pacts they mentioned in the codex.

Legion specific units definitely. And legion rules.

Possessed being useful.

More than anything I want Possessed to be good.

After that legion specific or god specific units/bonuses. I see this being done with what SC you take like in the vanilla SM codex.

I also would like to see a Chaos Codex as a more comprehensive Chaos book. So not just CSM, give us some Lost and the Damned, Daemons, heretics, cultists, mutants, traitors, marines, and so on.

That would be a massive codex. Cultists would be reserved for the Alpha Legion and Word Bearers, since they're the only ones to use them extensively. Daemons should never have left the CSM codex. It's cool that they can be played as their own army, but there should be the option of including CSMs with them.

It wouldn't have to be that big really. Heretics/Cultists could be one unit with Guardsmen like stats. Let them buy a squad leader in the form(s) of Aspiring Champ CSM, mutant tuff guy, renegade psyker. Then throw in some neat wargear/marks, and you've already covered the Lost and the Damned quite a bit.

Daemons could pretty much have one statline and then get differentiated by marks and wargear rather than 4 different units, one for each god.

Also look at the GK codex that has GK and Inq in one book, then the DE codex which can potentially let you make Wych, Kabalite, and Coven armies.