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A little back-story.
Whilst playing with my friend, we noticed that models are removed when they reach T or S 0,
Promptly I cast The Withering on his Dragon Princes and roll a six for the toughness reduction, leaving them at T0.
This cant be fair, to destroy a unit of very good cavalry with a single 10+ spell.

So I propose that the spells that reduce strength and toughness be limited to a minimum of one.

Comments/Criticisms welcome.

Well, if you were anything but Skaven and using the shadow spell "The Withering", it Is to a minimum of one. Only the Skaven spell can take them to T0, and that's a straight -1, no roll. So, in order to do it, you'd have to take them down to T1 with the shadow spell, then down to T0 with the Skaven spell.

Is it? T3 reduced by 3 is definitely 0, which means they are removed. I cant see anything that limits 'the withering' and 'the enfeebling foe' to a minimum of 1.
I will be extremely glad if you can give me a page reference to where it says 'to a minimum of one.'

Its in the spell text.

"All models in the target unit have their Strength reduced by D3 (to a minimum of 1) for the duration of the spell."

...yup.

Far as I can see, only Wither (much different from The Withering, somehow) can do so.

It was my favorite spell in 7th. A Prince on a Star Dragon, you say? By turn two, the Prince had been Withered right off of the dragon, and then my Death Frenzied Slaves took out the T3 dragon.

But yeah, the Shadow spells are all to a minimum of 1, the Horned One be praised.

Thanks, our fault for jumping to conclusions and my fault for not double checking.

That said, yeah its generally not fair when a spell can outright remove a unit. In this case its ok because its really tough to do, you have to combine 2 spells from 2 different lores and casters.

This requires you to get both spells when rolling for them, and it requires you to have enough PD to cast them, and it requires no dispel from your opponent.




if you need to cry unfair, please do so against things like Pit of Shades or Purple Sun. only one caster and one casting roll makes it much more likely to get it through. My ogres and their I2 will thank you for your efforts.

This combo could only happen in a team game anyway, since Skaven can only cast spells from their Lores. I guess the Casket or Glean Magic coupled with some Shadow-stuff could do it, but that's about as unlikely.

Pit and Sun are the enemy of Ogre and Vampire armies everywhere, and it's a little crappy that two Lores offer such effective spells against them. Plus, Ogres being multi-wound (especially in the case of Sun, coupled with the Attribute) makes them particularly vulnerable.

Against horde armies, Dwellers is king. A 50-50 shot at killing any wizard in the unit, as well as half the other dudes is brutal.

WoC Nurgle armies could do it.

Use the Withering to a minimum of 1, then use Curse of the Leper. Since the Curse isn't listed as a hex, it can stack with Withering.

WoC has access to both Shadow and WoC Nurgle lore.

Hell, imagine taking out deathstars this way, good times (Good luck getting both spells off though)

Rolling both spells, casting both spells, and getting a 3 on The Withering.

A possibility, but I wouldn't try too hard when building a list. That said, Nurgle magic isn't bad, and Shadow's great.

Warpsolution wrote:This combo could only happen in a team game anyway, since Skaven can only cast spells from their Lores. I guess the Casket or Glean Magic coupled with some Shadow-stuff could do it, but that's about as unlikely.

HAT! (extremely unlikely I know)

Warpsolution wrote:Against horde armies, Dwellers is king. A 50-50 shot at killing any wizard in the unit, as well as half the other dudes is brutal.

Just one more reason I dislike playing against Lore of Life so, so much.

That's my main problem with Life: the best defensive spells in the game- cool. Coupled with one of the best offensive spells in the game- less cool. Power on that level, combined with versatility on that level. Lame.

But...I suppose the Hat could work. Silly hat.

meh, at least its fairly universal in the armies it is good against. Purple Sun and Pit of Shades seem to have been purpose built to take ogres out. Why??? its not like we ever did anything to deserve it.

Why can't there be a spell that makes you take an I test, and you have to fail to live?

Grey Templar wrote:meh, at least its fairly universal in the armies it is good against. Purple Sun and Pit of Shades seem to have been purpose built to take ogres out. Why??? its not like we ever did anything to deserve it.

Why can't there be a spell that makes you take an I test, and you have to fail to live?

What are you complaining about? You are not the one with an army where the majority of the models are I1...

Well, Ogres get hit hard because they lose three wounds/test failed. And with Sun, that's three chances at another power die...

Still, I think the Lore of Death is overall a worse Lore than Life. Sun is great. The other spells are situational to decent to poor. Life...pretty much rocks, I'd say.
Shadow is wicked, but Pit isn't near as devastating. I do think it's lame that Ogres need to deal with two spells that so efficiently decimate them, though.

pretty much every lore has a place but you have to build your army to suit your lore.