Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Greetings, fellow humanoids!

As a new Tyranid player, one of the most intriguing units in the book to me is the Venomthrope; it's Toxic Spores rule allows for some seemingly interesting applications.

What I'm wondering is, what are the best synergies you more experienced Nid players have discovered with it?

As an aside, any general Tyranid advice is welcome also. Let her rip!

Competes with Hive guard. Not cool!

That seems to be there big drawback iirc

Yeah, Mr. Cruddace certainly made some...interesting decisions regarding the distribution of units in certain slots (cough Elites cough).

Regardless, I still feel that a proper amount of Anti-Tank can be taken, despite the sacrifice of 1 slot to the Venoms.

It synergies well with TMC's. Effectively adding on 33% extra wounds to each multi-wound model. A warrior prime is a good match to pair it with as well, I feel.

My friend has been doing fine so far with 2x2 hive guard, so maybe so, maybe so. Can you take venoms as a brood?

Yup, 1-3. I plan on running 3, with 2 Primes to scare off/ absorb missiles and lascannon shots. Meanwhile, the rest of the horde runs rampant.

Whats the size of the army? You do realize even one prime with twin swords & a venomthrope can deal substantial damage to infantry squads.

Yep. They will be advancing, and quite likely might end up in assault, but I will be trading some CC killiness for more survivability for what will most likely be the lynchpin of the force.

Not to mention, the rest of the Tyranids aren't exactly slouches in CC.

If your running a fair few TMC's & will be making use of the bigger footprint a 5 model unit would provide.. and you have some form of gaunt screen to proceed this venomthrope/dual prime deathstar, why not?

I wouldn't call 3 Venomthropes and 2 Primes a "death star"; more of an "injury nebula". Venoms suck pretty hard at combat, and they're very vulnerable without the 5++ and the Primes sucking up ID wounds.

Much better to simply shove a couple Trygons and whatnot down my opponents throat, and break off the Primes when they get close enough to assault, if the need arises.

It is the lashwhip which makes the venomthropes awesome when in combination with a prime.

The reason I query the use of 3 venoms compared to just 1, is that do you really need the venomthrope buff on the field that much or could you do with two additional hive guard? Even if you keep the second prime, a single venomthrope is still well protected.

Actually, I have no Hive Guard. I cant find a deal on them, and $21 per model is pretty steep.

You likely won't.

They are one of the better units in the new dex.

If you do find soem cheap, snap em up

In 5th ed, Venomthropes are a reduntant unit. You should have no problems layering a 4+ cover save for most of your units save Trygons, and the foremost screen can get a 4+ terrain cover save and/or Feel No Pain.
And their other ability to force difficult and dangerous terrain tests are pointless - who wants to charge Tyranids? The meta is all about shooting atm.

There haven't been one game so far were I didn't wish I had another unit of Hive Guards instead, or Ymgarls.
But if the 6th ed rumours are true, I think this it the unit designed to allow Tyranid walking creatures to at least get a 5+ cover save from july (rumour has it that you wont be able to get cover saves from intervening friendly units in 6th ed).

I just purchased my 6th hive guard model. I started with 4. They are simply amazing.

Doom of Malantia occupies my 3rd elite slot...but to be honest, if 6 hive guard perform as well as I think they will, he'll be replaced with 3 more :/

That wet spot I feel... oh, it's just my wallet crying.

Sigh.

I like Venomthropes and have three of them.

The key disadvantage is that they occupy an elite slot often needed for Hive Guards or Zoanthropes.

One very, very amusing way I found to tie up enemy models is to take Ripper Swarms and Venomthropes. Get the Rippers in the way of the enemy models approaching, ensure the Venomthrope is nearby so as to give a cover save, and wait until the rippers are shot at by the enemy, hoping to clear them out of the way to get past. Then go to ground. The rippers get +1 to their cover saves... and going to ground imparts a +1 cover save. 3+ cover is too funny on a 10pt unit with 3 wounds.

One turn of Sisters' shooting couldn't even kill 8 Rippers, once. It was fun, but I wouldn't advise it or relying on it for anything more than laughs.

(Yes, the Rippers all died in the assault phase afterwards. )

Jeez, with FNP, those buggers would be nigh unkillable. Huh.

If only they scored...

Nids don't worry about scoring, they worry about the gooey filling. I am thinking of the Venomthropes as well. Going to advance 2 Trygons, 2 Tervigons and the swarmlord with a brood of two hidden in behind and it should give an oppenent fits. Especially as the tyrant guard give a 4+ coversave to swarmy with guants in front of it.

Very true. Doubled, you and I where thinking of similar lists, but I was planning on using Raveners for killiness and 2 Primes to suck up S8-9 wounds from my Venoms.

Venoms can also be useful with Stealer spam. Often 3 units of 20 Stealers are going to have problems finding cover for everyone, but if you conga line each unit back to your Venom brood you've at least got a 5+ on all of them.

Also, with 60 Stealers up close and personal with rending claws and multi assault shenanigans, you won't miss that 3rd Hive Guard brood as much.

If you bag first turn and FnP your 3 stealer units first turn on top of this, watch you're opponent cry as they try to deal with 60 FnP'd stealers with min 5+ cover save, defensive grenades and difficult/dangerous terrain bonuses. None of his firing is going into your Hive Guard

N.I.B. wrote:In 5th ed, Venomthropes are a reduntant unit. You should have no problems layering a 4+ cover save for most of your units save Trygons, and the foremost screen can get a 4+ terrain cover save and/or Feel No Pain.

You must be playing with really small units. Units above 15 models get really hard to have enough in cover to get a save. With a Venomthrope or two and large units conga-lined a little, you can ensure your entire army gets a 5+ cover save.

It also has an awesomely annoying affect on a lot of players, who end up spending a few turns trying to kill the Venomthrope and by the time they do, it doesn't matter because your bugs have made assault.

-Loki- wrote:

N.I.B. wrote:In 5th ed, Venomthropes are a reduntant unit. You should have no problems layering a 4+ cover save for most of your units save Trygons, and the foremost screen can get a 4+ terrain cover save and/or Feel No Pain.

You must be playing with really small units. Units above 15 models get really hard to have enough in cover to get a save.

Most people with optimized lists field a couple of min-sized Termagant screens, which more or less gives your whole army a 4+ cover save. As I said, redundant.
My other units are usually big. 20 Genestealers have no problem getting half inside terrain, I think you might lack some imagination.
And if you can't get your screen into terrain, you can normally give them FNP.

odorofdeath wrote:Greetings, fellow humanoids!

As a new Tyranid player, one of the most intriguing units in the book to me is the Venomthrope; it's Toxic Spores rule allows for some seemingly interesting applications.

What I'm wondering is, what are the best synergies you more experienced Nid players have discovered with it?

As an aside, any general Tyranid advice is welcome also. Let her rip!

There's a number of things to keep in mind with them (much of this is rehash of what has been said with some other points to consider, mentioned again just for a complete picture).

--You give up a much vaunted elite slot. 6 Hive guard are pretty much mandatory outside of Null deployment (eg reserve based shenanigan lists), so this means generally no Doom, Ymgarls or more hive guard. Not the end of the world though, as those units aren't auto include (imo), but neither are venomthropes.

--You gain a 5+ cover save bubble. Its been said that its easy to get a 4+ for free and while true there are a number of other considerations:
*Carnifex MCs can only be screened by 40mm models (like warriors) or bunched up gargoyles. Gants aren't giving them a cover save. This is situational and list dependent but not having to front your tervigons with gargoyles or hive guard can be useful.
*Trygon's and harpies aren't getting a cover save from anything other then another trygon or harpy (maybe certain mycetic spore proxies and some terrain). This really is a big reason to take the venomthropes imo -- 3 Trygons with 5+ cover and potentially FnP are happy campers.
*Also consider oftentimes getting that cover save means taking difficult terrain tests. Anyone who runs tyranids know that when your screen rolls poorly for DT, it can really cluster up your 'meatball' or early game assaults.
*The venomthrope gives one another option instead of relying on terrain, which lets face it is oftentimes crap at tournaments or stores or tends to favor the table edges and not the areas we want to advance toward.

--Assault defense aka Defensive grenades and dangerous terrain tests when assaulting your units within the spore cloud (not Difficult Terrain btw, a few posts got that bit wrong). It was said that 'who wants to assault tyranids'. Well for one, other Tyranids. Orks, Daemons and various marine builds as well. I would say a decent chunk of the armies you'll play will be affected by this, maybe not a majority but enough to be worthwhile. And in those cases the guy with the venomthrope has the edge -- his oppoent strikes last when assaulting and doesn't gain the extra attacks to make up for it. Utterly devestating in combination with other synergies (preferred enemy, tervigon gant boosts, etc).

--Defensive grenades means S3 or less units can hurt vehicles. Its a minor boost but an oft overlooked feature.

--Work nicely with a Tyranid Prime or two. As mentioned the Prime can take S8 hits for them but he can also help spread the unit out so the affected area is larger and also help in the rare event the unit gets assaulted. And having that many lash whips and 2+ poison attacks ain't a bad thing in combat when a prime can dish out some bonesword attacks.

--Should you take a brood of venomthropes? I think any list taking trygons in a non-reserve style list should absolutely consider them. Also lists featuring Old Advesary and/or a horde and/or tervigon spam could benefit from them. They aren't a requirement though and there's lots of other options for the points and slots.

--If you take them I think 2 is probably the optimal but 3 in larger games might be warranted. I think 1 is too few and greatly limits the affected area and survability.

For general Tyranid advice I suggest reading (but not replying and necro-ing) this thread.

Hope that helps.