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So I have looked into warmachine and I really like khador (the models are...AMAZING) BUT all my friends at my LGS are 40k players (like myself) and want to concentrate on that, which is a big bummer...

Dose anyone know any... tactica... to persuade them into playing it?

Also we have had a talk about it and if we were starting we have all chosen our army's we would play as.

Cheers to all comments.

What I did to persuade my group was a costly tactic, but very effective. I purchased a couple battleboxes in addition to the battlebox I wanted. I ran them through several demo games letting them use whatever box they preferred. After about two weeks of what felt like near constant gaming, I had sold off my extra battleboxes to said friends and we've been playing WM/H since.

So if you happen to have the extra income to drop an addition $100 to $150, you may find that you'll make WM/H players out of them. You may also be able to sell off the battleboxes and cover some of your investment.

happygolucky wrote:So I have looked into warmachine and I really like khador (the models are...AMAZING) BUT all my friends at my LGS are 40k players (like myself) and want to concentrate on that, which is a big bummer...

Dose anyone know any... tactica... to persuade them into playing it?

Also we have had a talk about it and if we were starting we have all chosen our army's we would play as.

Cheers to all comments.

Understand what you are about to read is coming from a Pressganger, a member of Privateer's Demo Team (aka: Me.) Also this is very broad strokes but understand that after two years of working this at my FLGS EVERY Warhammer 40K player has at least 1 Warmachine or Hordes army they'll play.

Before I start, find a copy of the MkI rulebook and read Page 5. This is the heart and Soul of Warmachine. The MkII Page 5 is... Lacking.

Okay there are three kinds of 40K players:
1) Competitive players. These guys enter every 'Ard Boyz, know all the broken stuff to throw, and don't see WM/Hordes as a rival to 40K. As soon as I spot a Competitor I unload the full brunt of the sheer Overpowered nature of WM/H. Go "Full-On Page 5" as we say in my store. Throw friendlies for better field position, line up some wicked combos (like the Sorsha "Woosh" assassination below,) batter jacks/beasts with Knockback and Slam to drive a wedge to hit his Warcaster/Warlock. (Fighting a Competitor works best when you are running a Horde, BTW, as you get more Fury a turn than a Warcaster can generate Focus.) They start to see the possibilities, they start developing tactics and they begin to see the tactical complexity. Another thing to remember because Competitors HATE playing out of date or ineffective lists is that the hardest nut to crack in WM/H is Prime Vlad with Might of Kings active standing in a Cloud Effect. That Caster defense tactic is 7 years old and just as good as ever. The Sorsha "whoosh" assassination (WindRush+Feat+Charge/Assassinate) has also been around since day one. Thus no army is underpowered to the state of the game. These will be your last but strongest converts. Also show them that boosting lets a single model shift the balance of power, as you and they already know that once the tide turns against you in 40K its like pulling teeth to get the momentum back. That problem doesn't exist in WM/H. Oh! Also unless you are competing in Hardcore painting is optional in WM/H tournaments, so people who don't care about hobby side can "rock the Silver Surfer look" and not worry about being kept from the games.

2) Casual players. These guys are there for a good game, and they are the middle ground. They see WM/H as a good game, but not one your store backs enough to invest in. Lose to them a few times and show them a good mix of combos and units, and show them with a bit of luck they can play and win against your competitive players with only a little bit of effort. Show them No Quarter Magazine and let them know some other friends you've shown the game to. They will come over due to the small model count (My tier 4 35pt pCaine list is 24 models deep counting 4 light 'jacks,) so their time to paint them is minimal.

3) Social players. These guys and gals are here to hang out with friends and laugh a lot. Save these guys for last. Small model count and the fact that you've won the other two groups will win them over. While you are showing everyone how fun it is, let the Socials read copies of No Quarter (Privateer's Magazine.) There's lots of nerdiness (Like Model about town) to show off the still youthful exuberence of the game. Also, Privateerpressforums.com is a huge resource and the staff routinely reads through (The current Quartermaster [Head Pressganger] told me in an email yesterday its actually part of his job to spend so many hours a week in the forums. Benefits of going to High School with him, lol.)

If you have enough interest and you want free product, consider joining the Press Gang to run events and stuf at your store. All it takes is two painted battle boxes (for demos,) a pic of your face, and an application signed off on by a PressGanger and the store you are gonna run stuff at. After your first two events you've made back the cost of the Battleboxes you painted in new product!

I'm here for any more questions if you have 'em.

Cheers to all comments really appreciate them.

Schnitzel-sorry I Dont have that kind of cash at the moment but thanks for the advice.

Farquestor- Cheers for the advice but I Dont have a rulebook or anything (yet...) so I will need to convince them before getting it otherwise it will be a waste of money.

Any more advice is much, much appreciated.

Cheers to all comments.

I see your concern.

The quick-play rules are in the Battle Boxes and each can let you run a 15 point "Mangled Metal" game right out of the box (ie you don't need anything else to play.) You can't spend $50 and start 40K unless you go halfsies on an AoBR box and even then it only gives you half the gear.

Which, BTW, if you find a Menoth player there is now a two-player box that is Khador/Menoth and is an amazing value. Similar to AoBR, but the beauty of Privateer's card system is you don't need codexes once you learn the rules.

If nothing else, get me a physical address and I'll mail you a copy of the Quick Start and you can proxy figs from 40K. Small-based WM will line up to Small-based 40K, Medium bases line up to medium bases, and for large based WM models you can use mediums but be a bit more generous with melee ranges (the base sizes in WM are 20, 30, and 40mm, respectively.)

I think you can actually down load the Quick Start rules (for Hordes and Warmachine) from the Privateer web site. Use these rules to play some proxy games as the newer Quick Start rules have "cards" for all the starter boxes. Remember that base size is important and I am not sure that 40K has matching base sizes.

In all honesty once they get a couple of games under their belts they will see that WM/H is a better system. The rules are tighter, the game play is faster, and there is less squabbling about the meaning of rules. For those reasons alone I have left 40K for WM/H.

Yeah there is someone there who wants to play menoth so...

Only one problem with that:

You only gain one rule book and (AFAIK) one set of templates, so if I were to convince this menoth player should I pay 75% of it Just so I can gain The rule book and templates?

Cheers to all comments.

That'd be between you and him, but I say that'd be fair. The templates are cheap and once you learn the basic rules the book it there for referrence, anyway as everything is subtraction from stats on printed cards (ie no charts to consult.)

Ok so now I have to convince him...

This part will be a tough nut to crack...

Honestly the best way is to grab two battle boxes and on a slow day at the store throw down. Its how I got my first converts.

Especially if their dice hate them in 40K. The concept of additional and boosted die for some actions will win a player who has crappy luck at rolling. Now instead of the 33% change for a 5+ on a charge you get a 61% chance for a 7+ on 3d6 with a beast, 'caster/lock, or 'jack...

Hey, im one of the friends in question.

and, i dont know why happy posted this because, we told HIM about Warmachine, and we already told him we were going to collect it

@RatWolf- LOL He might just mean he wants to see a larger player base i guess?

I've done two things to try and convert some of my friends thus far-
1- Instead of rushing to build up just one army, I'm trying to build up two very different forces, Cryx & kahdor, so I can play other people who don't have WM armies (added benefit of me possibly getting one or two of my RPG only buds hooked)

2- Taking a hint from the crack dealers I used to guard when I was a corrections officer, I bought my brother in law and best bud starter kits for their B-days.

Nah there is a large player base just (what I found) a confusing text but now at least I can field Female commissar characters and big heavy jacks now...

RatWolf wrote:Hey, im one of the friends in question.

and, i dont know why happy posted this because, we told HIM about Warmachine, and we already told him we were going to collect it

Sounds like he has a second, secret group of friends he was trying to hide from you

Glad to see another gaming group taken in by this great game, put up some BR's for me to read, will ya?

I have also been wanting to start warmachine myself but in my gaming group they only play 40k and some play fantasy and have started necromunda. I also don't have any cash :(.

Farquestor wrote:I see your concern.

The quick-play rules are in the Battle Boxes and each can let you run a 15 point "Mangled Metal" game right out of the box (ie you don't need anything else to play.) You can't spend $50 and start 40K unless you go halfsies on an AoBR box and even then it only gives you half the gear.

Which, BTW, if you find a Menoth player there is now a two-player box that is Khador/Menoth and is an amazing value. Similar to AoBR, but the beauty of Privateer's card system is you don't need codexes once you learn the rules.

If nothing else, get me a physical address and I'll mail you a copy of the Quick Start and you can proxy figs from 40K. Small-based WM will line up to Small-based 40K, Medium bases line up to medium bases, and for large based WM models you can use mediums but be a bit more generous with melee ranges (the base sizes in WM are 20, 30, and 40mm, respectively.)

Reposted for redkeyboard, emphasis added.


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happygolucky wrote:Nah there is a large player base just (what I found) a confusing text but now at least I can field Female commissar characters and big heavy jacks now...

And remember, throw what you can't break!

You don't need to mail a copy of the Quick Start rules when they're available through PDF from PP:

http://privateerpress.com/files/WarmachineMKII%20Quick%20Start%20Rules%20Front.pdf
http://privateerpress.com/files/Warmachine%20MKII%20Quick%20Start%20Rules%20Back.pdf

There is that, too. I get them by the dozen so I've never looked online for them.

I did exactly what was suggested before. I bought all 4 starter boxes. Built them. Ran my friends through them, then sold them to them making my money back.

Obrek wrote:

RatWolf wrote:Hey, im one of the friends in question.

and, i dont know why happy posted this because, we told HIM about Warmachine, and we already told him we were going to collect it

Sounds like he has a second, secret group of friends he was trying to hide from you

Glad to see another gaming group taken in by this great game, put up some BR's for me to read, will ya?

Hahaa, Maybe he does ><

But, yeah, once I start playing, and get my knuckles around the rules, the local boys run frequent tournaments, I SHALL be entering, and write up some BatReps on my blog

Dunno about myself I just want to play for fun, so il probably get units ill like the look of.

Its been my experience that you should always find "YOUR" caster. The models that work well with them also tend to look good with them. I like that about Privateer that they try to preserve individual 'themes' even inside of factions. Gun Mages look like they should fit with Caine. Zealots look like they belong with Severius. Trollkin Champions look like they belong with Borka and Madrak. Very rarely will you find a mis-matched 'caster (like the High Reclaimer... but he INTENTIONALLY doesn't fit the scheme.)

I built my entire Troll army until I found that Borka fits my concept of "Silly Scottish Trolls running and rushing crazily to victory, death, and glory" perfectly and once I built my "All Keg" list I've never taken anything other than the same 18 models out of my case for anything.

And don't play Zerkhova. Sure she captured one of the Elven gods from under the nose of Goreshade the Bastard with Eiryss in hot pursuit, but she's still Mrs. Claus.

Yupp, im liking the look of Mr.''Ive got wings and a Scythe''

Ive just seen the butcher in action on miniwargaming's batrep...

MESA WANT NOW.

Don't let pButcher's insane melee skills make you believe he's meant to be leading his army. That's eButcher.

pButcher is more of an army supporter for the first few turns, then he comes in as the 2nd wave and just cleans up.

happygolucky wrote:Ive just seen the butcher in action on miniwargaming's batrep...

MESA WANT NOW.

My recommendation to Khador players is to learn the game in the following order of Warcasters:

* Sorsha - Learning to pull off a rapier-like assassination from Sorsha's Wind Rush+Feat+Charge teaches you to stop Kaya, Denny, Kreoss, and even to an extent Caine and your other "assassin" caster's/locks. As in this game losing your HQ loses the game, its vital to learn how to stop this PDQ. Also, Wind Rush her every turn, and remember a "move" of 0" is still a move; you'll thank me.

* Butcher - Now you learn how to break their wills and backs! When you start using spells other than Iron Flesh you will then be ready for...

* Vlad - Sorsha's spell versatility, Butcher's aggression, and Blood of Kings or Signs and Portents, Vlad will teach you unit utility and synergy with the Khadoran army. Vlad is honestly the penacle of Khador warcasters, IMNSHO. From there you can develop your tactical flexability with Irusk or your magical superiority with Old Witch (as a rule, models that generate and use counters > those that don't, be advised,) but Vlad truly is the best 'all around' 'caster.


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AresX8 wrote:Don't let pButcher's insane melee skills make you believe he's meant to be leading his army. That's eButcher.

pButcher is more of an army supporter for the first few turns, then he comes in as the 2nd wave and just cleans up.

So true. pButcher makes a good army supporter, but people get lost in his combat ability. My pButcher strategy is punch a whole and let him wreck shop.

@Farquestor what does your toll list look like and do you use different lists. If so what is the make up of your other lists

To answer your second question first, after I built the Borka Party I don't play other lists because win or lose I have too much fun playing this list. My backup for Steamrollers is pDoomy, 2x Maulers (Fortune upkept for free on one of them the whole game via Great Power,) Runebearer, Max Champions, Max KSB+Elder, Swamp Gobbers, & the Totem Hunter.

I originally posted my Borka Party here, but It goes something like this:


Borka Party! (All Keg version)

Borka Kegslayer (He can't take the Runebearer, but he has...)
+Pyg Keg Carrier (his little buddy!)
+Dire Troll Bomber

2 5-Troll Champions
2 Fell Caller Hero
Trollkin Champion Hero (Or ditch him to Add Skaldi Bonehammer to a Champion Squad; really a choice thing and I didn't own Skaldi. Its also fun to use the Kiltlifter Ale model for the Champion Hero.)
Swamp Gobber Bellows Crew

Gobbers throw smoke on the Bomber or Borka, but the key to this is running your first turn or two with your Callers giving the Champions Pathfinder until they need Warcry's combat buffs. Borka and the Pyg will handle themselves and if need be Borka can throw Wind Wall until you get into melee with your Champions, where he NEEDS to be throwing up Mosh Pit every turn till the end of the game. The Bomber has two open fists and throws kegs of explosives at people. Its as reckless as Borka and while it doesn't have the Mauler's chain attack the two AOEs in Borka's list are going to keep people's heads down as you advance up the field.

When you throw Barroom Blitz they'll never know what hit 'em. Really I almost never need to use Borka's feat but do it so I can say "Bar room Blitz."


For a bit of extra trickeration, ditch a Fell Caller for Skaldi, ditch a unit of Champions to add an Impaler, 6 Kriel Warriors, and a Feralgeist (if you are playing a Horde.) The KW will benefit from the Mosh Pit just like the Champs will, the Impaler for the Crit Slam and throwing the Animus ON THE BOMBER, and the Feralgeist for once you down the first beast.