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Since someone threw out earth and GE. I might as well throw in Battletech universe. Seems quite a few posters here are old school Battletecher's. Imperial Guard vs Inner Sphere, SM vs clan elemental, or whatever have you. How would you conduct the battles lol and who would you use against various forces of 40K, Inner Sphere, or Clan. Not sure this been posted yet and my pain meds are kicking in muhaha

If I were the IoM, I would bomb the planets from orbit.

If I had to land a ground assault? Titan Legions all the way. Oh, you have a 100 ton mech? My Titan's left leg weighs ten times that... here, eat a Mega-Bolter.

Oh, you have LRM-20s? Kiss my Void Shield.


... the Mechs of Battletech simply don't hold a candle to the Titan Legions of 40K.

IoM wins this in the long run.

Jump Drives vs Warp Travel:
Although JDs are instantaneous travel, they then have to spend weeks recharging. Warp travel may take weeks to get from point A to point B. I would say they are roughly equivalent.

Space Combat:
The IoM wins this hands down. Dropships and Aerospace fighters won't be very effective against IoM's military ships and there just aren't enough warships in the BTech universe to stand a chance.

Air Combat:
This one is a bit trickier for me, as I'm not really sure on the air capabilities of the IoM. I would call this one a wash, however, just because Aerospace fighters in the BTech universe are really damn good

Ground Combat:
This is also tricky, because (as in most cases) it's hard to directly compare technologies. I would call a BattleMech roughly equivalent to a up-armed Knight from 40K. The BTech universe has the advantage with them due to the shear number of them. Tanks and infantry are fairly similar along both sides in terms of protection and firepower. I would say that Elementals would be roughly equivalent to, if not slightly better than, a Space Marine and probably in similar numbers, so even there as well. So, I would give the edge to BTech overall.

X-Factors:
Psykers. There are none in the BTech universe, so huge advantage to IoM.

Population:
This is fairly a wash as well. The IS has quite the population, close to on par with the IoM.

Answer:
IoM - no question. The amount of space assets that they have do, wins it for them. Ground forces don't stand much of a chance against orbital strikes (as can be seen when the Smoke Jaguars glassed whatever planet that was). The BTech universe would put up a fight and probably win a few engagements, but ultimately be overrun. I would say the last holdout of the IS would be House K's capital planet due to the space defense fortress they have rocking.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Psienesis wrote:If I were the IoM, I would bomb the planets from orbit.

If I had to land a ground assault? Titan Legions all the way. Oh, you have a 100 ton mech? My Titan's left leg weighs ten times that... here, eat a Mega-Bolter.

Oh, you have LRM-20s? Kiss my Void Shield.


... the Mechs of Battletech simply don't hold a candle to the Titan Legions of 40K.

I think you overestimate the size of Titans, and their legions. A 'Mech is approximately the size of a Warhound. A Legion has approximately 50 Titans in it and there's only ~23 (Lexicarium), with new ones taking "centuries" to replace (Titanicus). A regement of 'Mechs are 144 strong with losses taking days to replace. The Rassalhauge Republic... which is a SMALL (really small) territory of the IS has ~150 'Mech regiments

EDIT: A bit of misinformation by me, the RR has ~50 'Mech regiments, but again... is quite small. Each other major houses (of which there are 4) have in the hundreds. The Federated Suns have the largest millitary which is split into RTCs. These consist of a regiment of mechs, 3 vehicle regiments, a battalion of artillery, five regiments of infantry, and a fighter wing. The FS have ~200 active RTCs.

Yes, but that's a Warhound, the lightest of the true Titans of the Imperium. Drop an Imperator Titan down there. It outweighs any IS or Clan Mech, it's taller than all of them (sometimes as much as four or five times as tall) and is equipped with Void Shields (which no BTech Mech has anything akin to) as well as up to six Volcano cannons, which are designed specifically to kill other Titans with a single shot. This in tandem with its other armament (Mega-bolters, Hellstorm cannons)... or, hey, swap a Volcano cannon out for a Melta-cannon and watch a Madcat melt into a pile of slag with a single burst.

Also? Titan-class Powerfists. Want to watch a Titan beat another Titan to death in melee? The 40K Titans can do this... BTech mechs are almost never equipped for melee combat. This armament denies smaller mechs one of their primary advantages against the super-heavies... that is, getting inside the effective range of its weapons. Get inside the firing arcs of an Imperator? It crushes you with its Powerfist.

This is definitely a case of quality over quantity. An ER-PPC is a nice weapon, but against Void Shields and the sheer number of weapon hardpoints an Imperial Titan possesses, it's so much pissing into the wind.

Though, speaking of Lexicanum and Titan Legions:

The Legio Destructor ("Steel Beasts") is probably the largest Legion of the Collegia Titanica, comprising over a hundred Titans of all classes

... a half a dozen Imperator Titans would utterly crush any lesser foe.

FWIW, all titans have Void Shields. even the little warhounds.

Psienesis wrote:Yes, but that's a Warhound, the lightest of the true Titans of the Imperium. Drop an Imperator Titan down there. It outweighs any IS or Clan Mech, it's taller than all of them (sometimes as much as four or five times as tall) and is equipped with Void Shields (which no BTech Mech has anything akin to) as well as up to six Volcano cannons, which are designed specifically to kill other Titans with a single shot. This in tandem with its other armament (Mega-bolters, Hellstorm cannons)... or, hey, swap a Volcano cannon out for a Melta-cannon and watch a Madcat melt into a pile of slag with a single burst.

Also? Titan-class Powerfists. Want to watch a Titan beat another Titan to death in melee? The 40K Titans can do this... BTech mechs are almost never equipped for melee combat. This armament denies smaller mechs one of their primary advantages against the super-heavies... that is, getting inside the effective range of its weapons. Get inside the firing arcs of an Imperator? It crushes you with its Powerfist.

This is definitely a case of quality over quantity. An ER-PPC is a nice weapon, but against Void Shields and the sheer number of weapon hardpoints an Imperial Titan possesses, it's so much pissing into the wind.

Though, speaking of Lexicanum and Titan Legions:

The Legio Destructor ("Steel Beasts") is probably the largest Legion of the Collegia Titanica, comprising over a hundred Titans of all classes

... a half a dozen Imperator Titans would utterly crush any lesser foe.

This is going to take a fair bit of assumptions, but bear with me:
The total amount of titans to be fielded (assuming that 23 legions exist, and each has 100 titans (I would say this is good for an average)) there are 2,300 Titans. If we take the FS with 200 active RTCs, at 144 'Mechs per, there are 28,800 'Mechs. So the titans are out numbered 10:1... by a single IS faction. So, lets just assume that all of the IS factions combined (4 major houses, 2 minor ones, ComStar's forces, along with mercenary regiments (there are quite a few with multiple regiments at their disposal) let alone small pirate groups and completely discounting the Clans), account for 100,000 'Mechs. They now outnumber the titan legions by 40:1.

Discounting space assets, it's a pretty good fight, probably one of the best I can think of off the top of my head. But, NOT discounting space assets, IoM wins hands down.

Imperium wins.

As for Titan armor,

For thickness we are given that a Warhound has 95MM of armor, or around 3.7 inches. Reavers have 120MM, or 4.7 inches.


This is very thin compared to, say, an M1 Abrams which has between 350 and 1300 depending on the model and actual type of anti-tank round.

However, thickness isn't everything. Slope of the armor relative to the incoming fire must be taken into consideration and I see ALOT of sloping on Titans. they have very curvatious shapes on nearly every surface. This combined with the titan not being a static target(they can move quite rapidly) means that targeting a specific spot is going to be tough.


not to mention we have no idea about the durability of Ceramite. 95MM of Ceramite could be equivilant to 10,000MM of steel for all we know.

Grey Templar wrote:As for Titan armor,

For thickness we are given that a Warhound has 95MM of armor, or around 3.7 inches. Reavers have 120MM, or 4.7 inches.


This is very thin compared to, say, an M1 Abrams which has between 350 and 1300 depending on the model and actual type of anti-tank round.

However, thickness isn't everything. Slope of the armor relative to the incoming fire must be taken into consideration and I see ALOT of sloping on Titans. they have very curvatious shapes on nearly every surface. This combined with the titan not being a static target(they can move quite rapidly) means that targeting a specific spot is going to be tough.


not to mention we have no idea about the durability of Ceramite. 95MM of Ceramite could be equivilant to 10,000MM of steel for all we know.

'Mechs are the same way (in terms of armor sloping, etc.). And, don't really know what Ferro-fiberous armor is equivalent to, or how strong a PPC is in comparison to a Lascannon, etc., etc.

Best guesses for equivalency is that your average 'Mech is equivalent to your average Warhound. Just in MUCH higher numbers.

@Asherian Command
Any reasoning for this definitive sounding statement? (although I don't disagree as I've stated in my previous 2 posts, IoM wins by space assets alone)

Also, i think equating Mechs vs Titans is a little unrealistic because, due to the rarity of titans, mechs will be facing things like IG heavy weapons teams and Lemun Russ tanks far more often. And these are things the IoM will throw at them in spades.

Grey Templar wrote:Also, i think equating Mechs vs Titans is a little unrealistic because, due to the rarity of titans, mechs will be facing things like IG heavy weapons teams and Lemun Russ tanks far more often. And these are things the IoM will throw at them in spades.

Right, but the BTech universe has just as much infantry and armor support (see RTCs above) which technologically is fairly equivalent.

I am not very familiar with Battletech. Can they really match IG numbers? The IoM routinely throws Millions of Guardsmen at single points of a battlefield, and the loss of such numbers is not even felt.

No contest.

Warfare in the Battletech universe is ritualized (yes, even before the Clans). They have strict policies about what legitimate theaters and conduct of warfare there are. The Imperium wouldn't hesitate to virus bomb New Avalon.

Battletech has Gauss weaponry, which if they could get pass the void shields would cause massive damage to IoM Titans.

I do agree the IoM would win over all due to space assets.

Thats a serious problem, the Ritualized warfare I mean(dang )


So called "rules of engagement" only work when both sides adhere to them. This is one of the main reasons, if not THE reason, that Terrorists and Insurgents are able to operate so freely. They hide behind civilians, knowing that they won't get shot at.

The IoM has moved well past such limitations. They would think nothing of attacking cities if it won the war. They wouldn't do it if it was more profitable to let the city stand, the population can be a productive piece of the Imperium, but they could care less if there was some collateral damage.


In a way, the Imperium has a psycological advantage. They really wouldn't care if civilians got smushed. This alone could cause their enemy to recoil in horror, especially if they have become soft with thousands of years of no exposure to things like war and death. A demoralized enemy, regardless of equipment, is going to lose.

Grey Templar wrote:However, thickness isn't everything. Slope of the armor relative to the incoming fire must be taken into consideration and I see ALOT of sloping on Titans.

Sloping makes no difference when the Mech's Target lock and the Madcats reign death upon you from 630 meters away.

Grey Templar wrote:In a way, the Imperium has a psycological advantage. They really wouldn't care if civilians got smushed. This alone could cause their enemy to recoil in horror, especially if they have become soft with thousands of years of no exposure to things like war and death. A demoralized enemy, regardless of equipment, is going to lose.

BTech universe is constant (more or less) war.

Shrike325 wrote:
BTech universe is constant (more or less) war.

Small military units are at war with other small military units. Civilians are not involved.

DarknessEternal wrote:

Shrike325 wrote:
BTech universe is constant (more or less) war.

Small military units are at war with other small military units. Civilians are not involved.

Right - one could almost say war in Battletech is almost gentlemanly. Almost.

As for who would win? IoM, if only because it's super soft sci-fi vs. hard sci-fi.

DeathReaper wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:However, thickness isn't everything. Slope of the armor relative to the incoming fire must be taken into consideration and I see ALOT of sloping on Titans.

Sloping makes no difference when the Mech's Target lock and the Madcats reign death upon you from 630 meters away.

What?

Sloping so does make a difference. and 630 meters is a pathetic range, ~2000 feet isn't even a half mile. There are pistols with an equal range.

Like all debates about one sci-fi universe vs another, this will all come down to space superiority. Ground forces simply don't matter.

This becomes even more of a key issue when one side (IoM) is willing to simply destroy a planet if they need to.

So, IoM wins without a problem.

Grey Templar wrote:

DeathReaper wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:However, thickness isn't everything. Slope of the armor relative to the incoming fire must be taken into consideration and I see ALOT of sloping on Titans.

Sloping makes no difference when the Mech's Target lock and the Madcats reign death upon you from 630 meters away.

What?

Sloping so does make a difference. and 630 meters is a pathetic range, ~2000 feet isn't even a half mile. There are pistols with an equal range.

What you fail to realize is that the mechs with the missiles do not need LoS to get the lock, a team member can get a lock for them, usually a scout mech that is superfast, then you have 100 Madcat mechs with 2 LRM-20's firing both LRM-20's at the target from a half mile away whilst out of LoS.

so 100 mechs, 2 LRM-20's = 4000 missiles that will impact the locked spot all within a second or so of each other, then a few seconds later another volley of 4000 missiles, no chance of survival for anything on the receiving end of that.

100 mechs times 2 LRM-20'seach = 200 LRM-20's times 20 missiles per volley of one LRM-20 = 4000 missiles.

It'll be a mess for the titan. Just think about over 100 mechs running circles around the titan. There are so many weapons a titan can fire on primarytarget and so many on secondary. The weight of fire will bring down the titan. Coup de grace probaly be three Alacorns popping over the hill and putting nine guass rounds into a leg. I to will say IoM in an all out war due to captial ships

DeathReaper wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:

DeathReaper wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:However, thickness isn't everything. Slope of the armor relative to the incoming fire must be taken into consideration and I see ALOT of sloping on Titans.

Sloping makes no difference when the Mech's Target lock and the Madcats reign death upon you from 630 meters away.

What?

Sloping so does make a difference. and 630 meters is a pathetic range, ~2000 feet isn't even a half mile. There are pistols with an equal range.

What you fail to realize is that the mechs with the missiles do not need LoS to get the lock, a team member can get a lock for them, usually a scout mech that is superfast, then you have 100 Madcat mechs with 2 LRM-20's firing both LRM-20's at the target from a half mile away whilst out of LoS.

so 100 mechs, 2 LRM-20's = 4000 missiles that will impact the locked spot all within a second or so of each other, then a few seconds later another volley of 4000 missiles, no chance of survival for anything on the receiving end of that.

100 mechs times 2 LRM-20'seach = 200 LRM-20's times 20 missiles per volley of one LRM-20 = 4000 missiles.

The Imperium has weapons that don't need LoS. the IG specilizes in long range ordinance.

and those 4000 missiles have to contend with Void Shields.



Void shields work be transporting the incoming projectile into the warp and/or using warp feedback to detonate the projectile or otherwise destroy it.

having tons of projectiles impact at once is a bad idea because every single one of them will be stopped. Now if they are staggered you may get some through.


You also assume that Titans don't have sophisticated jamming devices to prevent such lock-ons. Titans have some of the most powerful scanners that mankind has ever produced, yet the ability of titans to hide from each other is immense and Titans end up doing alot of guesswork when shooting at each other. I would think Battletech would be reduced to the same guesswork because of Jammers.

Tau collapse the void shield and destroyed a warhound titan with missiles and two rail gun slugs with one pass from a tigershark

What is that from exactly?

forruner_mercy wrote:What is that from exactly?

The Tau IA book.

Ah, ok.

Course a lance of Executioners (mech's that are stealth) can nail out a titan for damage in a hit and run. Course I can see a "Death from Above" from a heavy/assualt mech be interesting. Or a Hachetman/Axman/Hatiachi just chop a Titan leg off

Or a Hachetman/Axman/Hatiachi just chop a Titan leg off

Would lose its weapon and/or arm against the Void Shield, if it's still up. Depending on the size of the Titan, it might just get kicked.

Tau collapse the void shield and destroyed a warhound titan with missiles and two rail gun slugs with one pass from a tigershark

Notice that this is both a staggered array of attacks also in a book relating to the race doing the attack. When you're getting codex fluff for a faction, you never read "The Dust Devil Marine Chapter was utterly wiped out when they attempted to take on a Hive Tyrant armed only with damp towels and harsh words" or "The Necrons unleashed every arcane weapon and strange sorcery in their arsenal... and utterly failed to so much as slow the Imperator Titan, who strode manfully onwards, crushing their Monolith, and its subterranean tomb complex, utterly" in the Necron Codex.