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2011/10/28 12:49:32
Subject: Third party wild card for presidential election?
latimes.com
Op-Ed
McManus: The third-party wild card
There is likely to be a wild card in the 2012 election with the group Americans Elect planning to hold a national primary election on the Internet.
Doyle McManus
October 27, 2011
Advertisement
American voters have fired two modern presidents after just one term, Jimmy Carter in 1980 and George H.W. Bush in 1992. Both suffered because the economy was in poor shape, and both faced disaffection within their own parties. But there was another thing those candidates had in common: They both faced relatively strong third-party candidates in the November election.
John B. Anderson in 1980 and H. Ross Perot in 1992 both ran as independent centrists, and while they weren't the only reason the incumbents lost (Ronald Reagan won a majority of the popular vote in 1980), they were certainly a factor.
Until now, handicapping for next year's presidential election has focused on how President Obama might fare in a two-candidate race. Could Obama beat Mitt Romney? Rick Perry? Herman Cain? (In all three cases, the answer is probably yes.)
But there's likely to also be a wild card in this election. Americans Elect, a well-funded "virtual third party," plans to put a centrist presidential candidate on the ballot in all 50 states, and while he or she is unlikely to win the presidential election, the presence of a third candidate could still have a major impact on the outcome.
Americans Elect is a collection of Republicans, Democrats and independents who say they're fed up with the polarization that has poisoned American politics. Some of its backers have previously contributed to Obama, Romney or other candidates. Several are fans of New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg, who has flirted with the idea of running as a third-party centrist. The group's central figure is Peter Ackerman, a wealthy investor and former banker who considers himself an independent and who was active four years ago in a similar effort called Unity08.
The group plans to hold a national primary election on the Internet — a mass-participation exercise that anyone can join. Candidates can nominate themselves, and voters can form committees to "draft" candidates, including politicians drawn from the major parties — Hillary Rodham Clinton, for example, or Jon Huntsman. Candidates who don't want to be drafted can take their names off the ballot, but only after several rounds of voting — so a Clinton boomlet could happen even if the secretary of State says she's not playing. Meanwhile, the group is collecting signatures to put itself on every state's ballot; it says it has collected 1.6 million signatures in California, which should enable it to qualify.
Who will its candidate be? Bloomberg is frequently mentioned, even though he says he doesn't plan to run. So is Huntsman, even though he says he's only interested in the Republican nomination. It might be former Louisiana Gov. Buddy Roemer, who has been trying to break into the Republican race; former Sen. Evan Bayh (D-Ind.), who retired after denouncing both parties; or independent business figures such as Starbucks CEO Howard Schultz, who has called on his fellow moguls to stop giving money to politicians.
Americans Elect says it plans to choose a presidential nominee (and a vice presidential candidate, who by the group's rules can't come from the same party) by June.
What happens then depends mostly on the shape of the contest between the Democratic and Republican candidates.
A candidate like Bayh might draw disaffected moderate and independent voters away from President Obama, making it easier for a Republican like Romney to win. Or a candidate like Bloomberg could attract moderate Republicans if the GOP nominee is seen as too extreme a conservative, a scenario that would benefit Obama.
Both Democrats and Republicans in Americans Elect insist that there's no conspiracy here. They don't have a preferred candidate, they say, and they're not launching this effort with a "spoiler" outcome in mind.
"I'm in this because I think the system is broken, and this is a way to begin fixing it," said Darry Sragow, a Los Angeles lawyer and veteran of California Democratic politics who is the group's national political director. "There's no intention here to spoil anybody's candidacy."
On the other hand, he acknowledged, that could be the effect. "The law of unintended consequences is alive and well," he said.
One potential pitfall for this well-intended effort is the opportunity for mischief. Americans Elect, because of recent court rulings, doesn't have to report who its donors are. Its organizers don't intend it to become a spoiler, but Republicans or Democrats could flood it with money to try to make it one.
Another is that the group is aiming at the wrong target. Presidential elections aren't the main source of polarization in American politics; neither Obama nor Romney is an extremist. Most of the polarization we're seeing comes from Congress, where districts have been drawn to protect incumbents and where donors and interest groups have more influence on the nominating process.
The group's organizers say they understand that. "To change the system, you have to change it at the level of Congress and state legislatures," Sragow said. "But we think the national level is the best place to get started."
That start is certain to be an interesting experiment no matter what happens. But its real potential will come in 2014 and beyond — if it can stay on the ballot and break the two parties' oligopoly in congressional elections, where the real problem lies.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2011/10/28 20:59:37
Subject: Re:Third party wild card for presidential election?
The problem is 30-40% of America ALWAYS votes Republican, and about the same amount ALWAYS vote Democrat. They identify themselves this way, they don't think about it, they just vote the party line eveni if it is ultimately not in their best interest.
A third party cantidate will only ever be a spoiler, taking votes away from whichever major cantidate has the most similar platform so the OTHER major cantidate can win, until the average American bothers to educate themselves about what individual cantidates stand for rather than being party-line sheep.
CHAOS! PANIC! DISORDER!
My job here is done.
2011/10/29 03:05:52
Subject: Re:Third party wild card for presidential election?
I hope its Ron Paul! That dude is fricken Hi-larious! Sarah 'Da Moose' Palin would be awesome too! I'd like to drink a beer with her if you know what I mean. Eh, not really.
What's that other funny dud from Texas. His nickname is 'the Crotch.' Perry! I forget his first name already. He might be a funny third party canidate if he could figure out an angle. The crying evangelical like Boehner. That could be fun.
LA Times wrote:
Another is that the group is aiming at the wrong target. Presidential elections aren't the main source of polarization in American politics; neither Obama nor Romney is an extremist. Most of the polarization we're seeing comes from Congress, where districts have been drawn to protect incumbents and where donors and interest groups have more influence on the nominating process.
This is true. Its also worth noting that a President, no matter how committed he is to his ideology, can't accomplish much of anything without either Congress, or willingness to push the boundaries of his authority.
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
2011/10/29 07:02:51
Subject: Third party wild card for presidential election?
Doesn't matter in Oklahoma. Only Democrats and Republicans are recognized as political parties, and write ins are not allowed. No independents in that race.
2011/10/29 15:25:23
Subject: Re:Third party wild card for presidential election?
Vulcan wrote:The problem is 30-40% of America ALWAYS votes Republican, and about the same amount ALWAYS vote Democrat. They identify themselves this way, they don't think about it, they just vote the party line eveni if it is ultimately not in their best interest.
A third party cantidate will only ever be a spoiler, taking votes away from whichever major cantidate has the most similar platform so the OTHER major cantidate can win, until the average American bothers to educate themselves about what individual cantidates stand for rather than being party-line sheep.
And thats why I say we need to abolish/modify the party system, there should not be a little (R) or (D) next to the candidates names on the ballot.
Furthermore, I think there needs to be a challenge regarding the Oklahoma system, if the above posters comments are indeed true. Last I checked NOWHERE in the Constitution does it say that you have to be in a political party to be elected...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/10/29 15:26:10
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
2011/10/29 16:35:46
Subject: Third party wild card for presidential election?
d-usa wrote:Doesn't matter in Oklahoma. Only Democrats and Republicans are recognized as political parties, and write ins are not allowed. No independents in that race.
Formally, or no other party ever tries?
Even if you have a choice of two, unless there is an option for the people to support a third, or fourth etc option then you dont have a real democracy.
People should have the right to xconsider there is something wrong with all established parties and support something else.
n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
2011/10/29 16:55:03
Subject: Third party wild card for presidential election?
If the Republicans can't come up with anything better than Cain, Perry, Romney, or Bachmann, Obama will get reelected due to the fact he is much less insane to any independent voter than the aforementioned Republican candidates.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/10/29 16:55:17
2011/10/30 03:10:08
Subject: Third party wild card for presidential election?
d-usa wrote:Doesn't matter in Oklahoma. Only Democrats and Republicans are recognized as political parties, and write ins are not allowed. No independents in that race.
Formally, or no other party ever tries?
Even if you have a choice of two, unless there is an option for the people to support a third, or fourth etc option then you dont have a real democracy.
People should have the right to xconsider there is something wrong with all established parties and support something else.
Oklahoma is usually considered the state with the worst ballot access laws in the nation. You can run as an independent by simply paying a fee (except for President) and you will be listed with an I next to your name, but to become registered as a third party and have that party designation next to your name is pretty hard.
To become recognized as an official party you have to:
1) Signatures equal to 5% of the total votes cast for the top office during the last election (currently around 52,000, was closer to 74,000 signatures for 2009/2010).
2) If one signature is invalidated on the petition sheet, then the whole sheet is invalidated. Meaning that to get 52,000 signatures you should collect at least 65,000 just to be on the safe side.
3) You have 1 year to collect the signatures from the day you file your notice of indent. Currently that means 1,000 signatures a week not counting the spare ones to be safe from challenges.
4) During even years you are not allowed to collect signatures from May until November, even if your one year period falls during those months.
5) If you make it on the ballot, you have to receive at least 10% of the vote for the highest office, if you don't then your official party status is revoked and you have to start from scratch.
And of course, any party which was represented on the ballot during the election of 72 (I think that is the year) is exempt and is automatically included. You can guess who the two parties are....
2011/10/30 05:00:40
Subject: Third party wild card for presidential election?
d-usa wrote:Doesn't matter in Oklahoma. Only Democrats and Republicans are recognized as political parties, and write ins are not allowed. No independents in that race.
Formally, or no other party ever tries?
Even if you have a choice of two, unless there is an option for the people to support a third, or fourth etc option then you dont have a real democracy.
People should have the right to xconsider there is something wrong with all established parties and support something else.
Oklahoma is usually considered the state with the worst ballot access laws in the nation. You can run as an independent by simply paying a fee (except for President) and you will be listed with an I next to your name, but to become registered as a third party and have that party designation next to your name is pretty hard.
To become recognized as an official party you have to:
1) Signatures equal to 5% of the total votes cast for the top office during the last election (currently around 52,000, was closer to 74,000 signatures for 2009/2010).
2) If one signature is invalidated on the petition sheet, then the whole sheet is invalidated. Meaning that to get 52,000 signatures you should collect at least 65,000 just to be on the safe side.
3) You have 1 year to collect the signatures from the day you file your notice of indent. Currently that means 1,000 signatures a week not counting the spare ones to be safe from challenges.
4) During even years you are not allowed to collect signatures from May until November, even if your one year period falls during those months.
5) If you make it on the ballot, you have to receive at least 10% of the vote for the highest office, if you don't then your official party status is revoked and you have to start from scratch.
And of course, any party which was represented on the ballot during the election of 72 (I think that is the year) is exempt and is automatically included. You can guess who the two parties are....
Now that is hilarious.
Oh also I'm with the tinfoil hats about the party will be a spoiler, money talks and out of 100 seats independants took 2, not very good representaion of voters willing to not vote red or blue.
"The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents."
~The Call of Cthulhu
2011/10/30 06:14:12
Subject: Third party wild card for presidential election?
It isn't as simple as people not wanting more options, you also have to take into account things like the people in power making the rules of who can and can't run for office.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
2011/10/31 11:12:49
Subject: Third party wild card for presidential election?
Karon wrote:Won't really matter at this point, really.
If the Republicans can't come up with anything better than Cain, Perry, Romney, or Bachmann, Obama will get annihilated because the freaking unemployment rate is 9.1% and he wreaks of Carter II, the End of Hope.
Corrected your typo.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2011/10/31 20:04:12
Subject: Third party wild card for presidential election?
d-usa wrote:To become recognized as an official party you have to:
1) Signatures equal to 5% of the total votes cast for the top office during the last election (currently around 52,000, was closer to 74,000 signatures for 2009/2010).
2) If one signature is invalidated on the petition sheet, then the whole sheet is invalidated. Meaning that to get 52,000 signatures you should collect at least 65,000 just to be on the safe side.
3) You have 1 year to collect the signatures from the day you file your notice of indent. Currently that means 1,000 signatures a week not counting the spare ones to be safe from challenges.
4) During even years you are not allowed to collect signatures from May until November, even if your one year period falls during those months.
5) If you make it on the ballot, you have to receive at least 10% of the vote for the highest office, if you don't then your official party status is revoked and you have to start from scratch.
And of course, any party which was represented on the ballot during the election of 72 (I think that is the year) is exempt and is automatically included. You can guess who the two parties are....
Holy gak, how has this not been overturned?
mattyrm wrote: I will bro fist a toilet cleaner.
I will chainfist a pretentious English literature student who wears a beret.
2011/10/31 20:12:08
Subject: Third party wild card for presidential election?
Karon wrote:Won't really matter at this point, really.
If the Republicans can't come up with anything better than Cain, Perry, Romney, or Bachmann, Obama will get annihilated because the freaking unemployment rate is 9.1% and he wreaks of Carter II, the End of Hope.
Corrected your typo.
Really, any Republican ads focusing on anything other than the Economy simply shouldn't be run.
Debate Moderator: "Mr. (or Mrs.) Republican Nominee, how do you feel about the situation in Libya?" Republican Nominee: "How about that 9% unemployment rate?"
biccat wrote:
Really, any Republican ads focusing on anything other than the Economy simply shouldn't be run.
Debate Moderator: "Mr. (or Mrs.) Republican Nominee, how do you feel about the situation in Libya?"
Republican Nominee: "I'm pretty damn sure they aren't pushing 10% unemployment."
Obama: No, they're pushing 40%.
or
Obama: While my opponent is dismissive of the Libyan situation, I plan to do X.
or
Obama: I agree with my opponent, unemployment is the central issue for the American people, and I would like to work with the opposition in order to address it; (insert examples of attempted cooperation).
Focussng on the economy doesn't really favor either side, it is very easy to deflect.
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
2011/10/31 20:21:05
Subject: Third party wild card for presidential election?
"I hate movies where the men wear shorter skirts than the women." -- Mystery Science Theater 3000
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Check out Cinematic Titanic, the new movie riffing project from Joel Hodgson and the original cast of MST3K.
See my latest eBay auctions at this link.
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2011/10/31 20:22:15
Subject: Third party wild card for presidential election?
biccat wrote:
Really, any Republican ads focusing on anything other than the Economy simply shouldn't be run.
Debate Moderator: "Mr. (or Mrs.) Republican Nominee, how do you feel about the situation in Libya?"
Republican Nominee: "I'm pretty damn sure they aren't pushing 10% unemployment."
Obama: No, they're pushing 40%.
or
Obama: While my opponent is dismissive of the Libyan situation, I plan to do X.
Republican: Why is there an AlQaeda flag flying over the Libyan courthouse in Benghazi? Is that what you meant by your plan? And the unemployment rate is still 9.1%
or
Obama: While my opponent is dismissive of the Libyan situation, I plan to do X.
Republican: You aint done . Its your entire pattern of aint doing . You aint done in doestic affiars. You aint done in foreign affairs.
And class, thats the moment when the veterans took over all across the globe. Now can anyone tell me why service equals citizenship?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/10/31 20:28:19
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2011/10/31 21:05:31
Subject: Re:Third party wild card for presidential election?
While Frazzled and I don't always agree and biccat and I almost never agree, I think we would find common cause against this happening.
Yes, but I'm sure that we would disagree that it would be a great thing for the 2012 election. The amount of votes he'd draw from Obama would be disastrous.
Plus, we could look forward to some "recycled" jokes from the '08 election.
text removed by Moderation team.
2011/10/31 21:16:24
Subject: Re:Third party wild card for presidential election?
While Frazzled and I don't always agree and biccat and I almost never agree, I think we would find common cause against this happening.
Indeed. Sound the Wiener Dog Horn of Much Sounding! In the words of our founder: Not one step backwards!
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2011/10/31 21:16:25
Subject: Third party wild card for presidential election?
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2011/10/31 21:17:55
Subject: Third party wild card for presidential election?
That may be the Seventh Sign. If Dogma agrees then we may in fact, rip open a hole in spaace and tiimeee.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2011/10/31 21:20:43
Subject: Third party wild card for presidential election?
Frazzled wrote:
Republican: You aint done . Its your entire pattern of aint doing . You aint done in doestic affiars. You aint done in foreign affairs.
Not a compelling argument, especially regarding foreign affairs since he'll just drop the bin Laden kill, Libya, removal of troops from Iraq, and the emphasis on Afghanistan. And, really, regarding domestic affairs he'll talk about healthcare and DADT.
Don't mistake things you don't like for things that aren't things.
That is a very awkward sentence.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Frazzled wrote:
Melissia wrote:
halonachos wrote:Bill Maher's an idiot.
On THIS we agree.
That may be the Seventh Sign. If Dogma agrees then we may in fact, rip open a hole in spaace and tiimeee.
Thankfully, I don't think Maher is an idiot, I think he's a douche.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/10/31 21:21:13
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
2011/10/31 21:24:46
Subject: Third party wild card for presidential election?
Frazzled wrote:
Republican: You aint done . Its your entire pattern of aint doing . You aint done in doestic affiars. You aint done in foreign affairs.
Not a compelling argument, especially regarding foreign affairs since he'll just drop the bin Laden kill, Libya, removal of troops from Iraq, and the emphasis on Afghanistan. And, really, regarding domestic affairs he'll talk about healthcare and DADT.
Don't mistake things you don't like for things that aren't things.
That is a very awkward sentence.
You thought that was a serious sentence? Come on Dogma, I'd have thought all the icons kind of gave it away? You have to admit it would be both more entertaining and more more enlightening than the responses in most political debates.
It beats Frazzled's first response which would be :
Frazzled walks over, followed by errant wiener dogs that fall out of his sleeves and collar: Seriously, whats with your ears college boy? You look like a cat person. Thats just wrong.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Frazzled wrote:
Melissia wrote:
halonachos wrote:Bill Maher's an idiot.
On THIS we agree.
That may be the Seventh Sign. If Dogma agrees then we may in fact, rip open a hole in spaace and tiimeee.
Thankfully, I don't think Maher is an idiot, I think he's a douche.
I guess, er the world is saved...er thanks? (crap now I have to pay more bills...)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/10/31 21:26:59
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2011/10/31 21:36:54
Subject: Third party wild card for presidential election?
Frazzled wrote:
You thought that was a serious sentence?
Nah, I just thought I would frame the Obama campaign's probable reply, since I wouldn't be surprised to hear that come out of Cain's mouth.
Admit it, this is the debate we'd like to see:
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2011/11/01 00:47:16
Subject: Re:Third party wild card for presidential election?
Vulcan wrote:The problem is 30-40% of America ALWAYS votes Republican, and about the same amount ALWAYS vote Democrat. They identify themselves this way, they don't think about it, they just vote the party line eveni if it is ultimately not in their best interest.
A third party cantidate will only ever be a spoiler, taking votes away from whichever major cantidate has the most similar platform so the OTHER major cantidate can win, until the average American bothers to educate themselves about what individual cantidates stand for rather than being party-line sheep.
It doesn't matter how the electorate sees things, in any first past the post electoral system then any candidate outside of the two favourites will be a spoiler. If you actually want to see people's views fully reflected, you need a preferential system, where a person can choose candidates in order of preference. So you vote for your favourite, and if he has the least votes they take your ballot and everyone else who voted for the guy and they look to see who your second favourite was.
This way you can show your preference for a third party, without 'throwing away your vote'.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
d-usa wrote:1) Signatures equal to 5% of the total votes cast for the top office during the last election (currently around 52,000, was closer to 74,000 signatures for 2009/2010).
2) If one signature is invalidated on the petition sheet, then the whole sheet is invalidated. Meaning that to get 52,000 signatures you should collect at least 65,000 just to be on the safe side.
3) You have 1 year to collect the signatures from the day you file your notice of indent. Currently that means 1,000 signatures a week not counting the spare ones to be safe from challenges.
4) During even years you are not allowed to collect signatures from May until November, even if your one year period falls during those months.
5) If you make it on the ballot, you have to receive at least 10% of the vote for the highest office, if you don't then your official party status is revoked and you have to start from scratch.
And of course, any party which was represented on the ballot during the election of 72 (I think that is the year) is exempt and is automatically included. You can guess who the two parties are....
If you aren't capable of collecting 50,000 signatures, or picking up more than 10% of the vote you aren't really much of a force in the first place.
I mean, the above is pretty obnoxious and I'd think pretty unnecessary, but it's really on stopping vanity runs from people that can't win.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/11/01 00:47:23
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
2011/11/01 01:58:33
Subject: Re:Third party wild card for presidential election?
Like it matters. I used to be interested in politics; even without liking any of the the candidates. Like a guy who watches football even if neither one is his team. As I've gotten older, I've become more and more disaffected by this game, though, because I'm increasingly sure it's fixed. Truthfully I'm not sure the time I spend voting couldn't better be spent clipping my toenails or learning to play the banjo. I can't imagine virtually a single thing done by this administration that would have been done differently if it was a administration with a different logo, and I'm sure it will be that way for the next election, too.
It's probably always been that way and I just wasn't smart enough to see it. Same crappy song, with a different artist covering it every few years. More needless wars, more entrenched interests, more inequality, more rights for corporations, more assaults on our freedoms, forever, amen.
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote: The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
. Its your entire pattern of aint doing 
