Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So I've been playing skaven for a little while now, they are my first WHFB army and I like them alot, but I am the only player in my community who plays skaven so most of my tactics come from general tips I pick up and comparing units from other army lists to what I have. The screaming bell/plague furnace however seems to be entirely unique and while I know how to use the structures themselves, I find myself plagued with a question. How many rats should be pushing the bell or monks for the furnace?

I have only played it as a bell so far and have it pushed by 42 clanrats. a group of 3x7 on each side. Is that too much? should I have more? and If i had it has a plague furnace pushed by plague monks how many should I use then? thanks for any help you guys have!

On the bell and the furnace, you want to go WIDE.
since your opponent has to maximize models, by going wide you can force charges to be off center, limiting attacks on the bell or furnace.

I ran my bell like you, 7 models on both sides. When the 6 wide elves charged in, only a single model could be corner to corner with the bell. If he centered on the bell, he wouldn't be maximizing on the unit.
Unlike you, I ran with storm vermin instead of clan rats, and I'd run them 4 deep. YES, 56 vermin pushing the bell. Crap load of S4 attacks and unbreakable is good.
If I had the models, I would have gone 5 deep.

-Matt

wow! 56 stormvermin that's gotta be scary.I feel like that would almost be dumping too many points into one thing, but youre right, I could see it being very effective. I'll have to try that out

HawaiiMatt wrote:On the bell and the furnace, you want to go WIDE.
since your opponent has to maximize models, by going wide you can force charges to be off center, limiting attacks on the bell or furnace.

I ran my bell like you, 7 models on both sides. When the 6 wide elves charged in, only a single model could be corner to corner with the bell. If he centered on the bell, he wouldn't be maximizing on the unit.
Unlike you, I ran with storm vermin instead of clan rats, and I'd run them 4 deep. YES, 56 vermin pushing the bell. Crap load of S4 attacks and unbreakable is good.
If I had the models, I would have gone 5 deep.

-Matt

You had a unit with a 17 model frontage? Holy moly!

Edit: on a more on-topic note. I ran a bell with a unit of 40 clan rats pushing it, and realized quickly that it wasn't really enough against an army with heavy shooting (read: salamanders). You can and will get whittled down very quickly. Like Matt said, it also means that units will not have a difficult time of swarming your caster.

streamdragon wrote:

HawaiiMatt wrote:On the bell and the furnace, you want to go WIDE.
since your opponent has to maximize models, by going wide you can force charges to be off center, limiting attacks on the bell or furnace.

I ran my bell like you, 7 models on both sides. When the 6 wide elves charged in, only a single model could be corner to corner with the bell. If he centered on the bell, he wouldn't be maximizing on the unit.
Unlike you, I ran with storm vermin instead of clan rats, and I'd run them 4 deep. YES, 56 vermin pushing the bell. Crap load of S4 attacks and unbreakable is good.
If I had the models, I would have gone 5 deep.

-Matt

You had a unit with a 17 model frontage? Holy moly!

Edit: on a more on-topic note. I ran a bell with a unit of 40 clan rats pushing it, and realized quickly that it wasn't really enough against an army with heavy shooting (read: salamanders). You can and will get whittled down very quickly. Like Matt said, it also means that units will not have a difficult time of swarming your caster.

You pay out the nose for the unbreakable. Going wide gives you more attacks and takes attacks off the seer. IMO, it's the only way to do the bell. You've got an 18" range on the leadership bubble, so ~13" wide center block isn't that bad.
Also, 56 storm vermin is ~400 points. With a ~500 point seer+bell, you're looking at a little over 1/3rd of your army, taking up about 1/3 of your frontage.
Combined it's a lot of points, but if you try to go cheaper (200 point unit) you're just end up losing both.

-Matt

85 clan rats full command shields w/ to push the bell (20wide x5deep)[the extra 15 are the bell itself]
2 units of 30 storm vermin on its flanks(6x5)

bunch of slaves w/slings and a couple doomwheels rolling around puts some worry into your foes

Lone Crusader wrote:85 clan rats full command shields w/ to push the bell (20wide x5deep)[the extra 15 are the bell itself]
2 units of 30 storm vermin on its flanks(6x5)

bunch of slaves w/slings and a couple doomwheels rolling around puts some worry into your foes

Lone Crusader... you crazy! But that is a cool idea, I wouldnt want to go up againts that. I think that might be an interesting concept making that many clanrats unbreakable.