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Someone asked if I would start a new thread specifically to talk about the relative merits of various DA "wing" armies..So here it is. I was aking what the best compact, small, elite army was-and given the choices, most went for Deathwing.So, lets say we're looking ar three points values-1500,2000 and 2500.

What is the best way to run a "wing" army at these points levels?

Well, the DA codex is rather outdated but playable with the new FAQ giving storm shields and cyclones the vanilla rules. The new codices of BA and SW are much better than the DA codex. I'd wait for a codex update and leave them on the shelf.

Deathwing is really solid. You do need to do some bitz-hunting, as usually the best build for most squads is 4xTH&SS and 1 cyclone. Of course you want the "command squad" upgrade with the banner and apothecary. It can be well worth it to salt in a few chainfists to give you a couple more options for popping open Land Raiders.

Generally the higher the points go the more support units you can afford. The core is always those Fearless Scoring terminator Troops, but adding bikers with melta and some scoring Speeders and/or multimelta speeders makes your force more well-rounded, gives you more mobility and a better chance of popping certain vehicles.

IME Land Raiders and Dreads are usually not optimal choices to build into DW. Land Raiders because they give your opponent's melta weapons a good target, which you otherwise lack, and because they cost more than another Scoring unit of terminators. Dreads because they give your opponent's missile launchers and autocannons a decent target to shoot at, in an army which is otherwise a nightmare for them. The only time I'd consider them is in a tournament whose format gave a lot of points for painting and maybe composition, because they both give you some sweet modeling options for centerpiece models

I wouldn't play DW over 1500pts. At 1500pts, it's devastating.

Above 1500pts, players can start taking enough stuff to deal with DW and expose DW's weaknesses better.

Mannahnin wrote:Deathwing is really solid. You do need to do some bitz-hunting, as usually the best build for most squads is 4xTH&SS and 1 cyclone. Of course you want the "command squad" upgrade with the banner and apothecary. It can be well worth it to salt in a few chainfists to give you a couple more options for popping open Land Raiders.

Why only 4 TH+SS? Keeping an LC guy for a few more attacks?

Flinty wrote:Why only 4 TH+SS? Keeping an LC guy for a few more attacks?

Chain fist.

Double wing doesn't seem overcosted to me at all, and comes into its own above 1500. The synergy between scout Ravenwing bikes with Teleport Homers, and TH/SS Deathwings with Cyclones is great, let alone the fact that they are all troops.

DA also gets the very strong Typhoon land speeders at a discount, and some of the, as Troops on top of that.

So, what is the best way to outfit Belial? Obviously, LC's makes the best use of his high initiative-butTH/SS give better survivability..

I always give Belial LC's to make, like you said, better use of his initiative. His 5 THSS buddies can take the punches for him.

+ they're already kinda modeled on my take of him, so I don't have a lot of choice

Also, I contest that Doublewing is dead above 1500 pts. 30+ THSS terminators in your face will always take their toll. + you could take LR's if you're a sissy.

TiB wrote:I always give Belial LC's to make, like you said, better use of his initiative. His 5 THSS buddies can take the punches for him.

+ they're already kinda modeled on my take of him, so I don't have a lot of choice

Also, I contest that Doublewing is dead above 1500 pts. 30+ THSS terminators in your face will always take their toll. + you could take LR's if you're a sissy.

Do you find that Belial gets targeted in cc where a force weapon could be interesting? I use TH/SS but haven't experienced other options.

I would only ever spend about half the points on the DW termies with pure deathwing, this gives you a chance to balance your army. Though I would say any points level it works.

Dualwing can be done in so many different ways but I would need 1750 points to come up with something I would be happy with.

I have had a few occaisions been force weaponed by grey knights, it happens ... sucks but it happens.