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Tamurkhan, the Throne of Chaos is now available in the US webstore and most likely other GW webstores as well.

It's still expensive($76 USD), but you're not paying for shipping or a currency conversion and the quality looks to be more than the current batch of Imperial Armour books(which are up there to begin with).

You can get your copy here.

That and Chaos Dwarves are perfectly legal in all games. That's a nice bonus too.

At "only" $76 US it's more than the Warhammer rule book's still amazing $74.25.

BrassScorpion wrote:At "only" $76 US it's more than the Warhammer rule book's still amazing $74.25.

Smaller print runs means higher costs must be justified with greater margins.

Kurgash wrote:That and Chaos Dwarves are perfectly legal in all games. That's a nice bonus too.

That's going to be an interesting ongoing discussion, a la all of FW's books.

Still, its nice to see some variety and new armies being introduced via forgeworld.

*edit* I retract my above comment. Is this a "GW" book that is out, or via FW? Oh wait, nevermind, my original comment holds.

Its an "expansion" for Warhammer. So basically, opponent's consent, like Storm of Magic, Planetstrike for 40k, Apoc, etc.

Hmm, €60,-- for me, which is the same price as the big red book. Ace.

Was Tamurkhan an 'undivided' kind of guy or was he focused on one Chaos God? Is there some place we can read of his exploits? I couldn't find anything in the WHFB Lexicanum.

You can't find anything, djphranq, as he was created very recently and the book just released in the last few weeks.

djphranq wrote:Was Tamurkhan an 'undivided' kind of guy or was he focused on one Chaos God? Is there some place we can read of his exploits? I couldn't find anything in the WHFB Lexicanum.

Make a guess:

Kroothawk wrote:

djphranq wrote:Was Tamurkhan an 'undivided' kind of guy or was he focused on one Chaos God? Is there some place we can read of his exploits? I couldn't find anything in the WHFB Lexicanum.

Make a guess:

Slaanesh right?

I want this book. It looks awesome, as if the Chaos Dwarf list wasn't sweet enough by itself.

Aw snap. For the better part of October I was constantly checking "Books - Advanced Order" for this, gave up on the 20th and ordered it from forgeworld. If I had known it would've went up on the GW site this fast, I would've waited and still probably got it faster then from Forgeworld. I'm usually a patient dude, but I've been looking forward to this book since the rumors first started!

I guess it kind of makes sense to keep it off the main GW site until it was released, so as not to steal Forgeworlds thunder.

It's actually not a question of "stealing Forge World's thunder" according to FW themselves.

They ship books over to the Memphis facility, and when the UK webteam(which updates all of the webstores) gets confirmation of the shipment--it gets put up.

There's no "advanced order" option, sadly, as they cannot necessarily guarantee a date for arrival of the stock to the Memphis warehouse.

Yeah, it just seemed to me to that Tamurkhan was put up on GWs website alot faster then the Imerial Armour series, last Badab War book took some time to get up on the GW site from what I remember. I think I had that book for about a month until GW website had it. Hope this will be a consistent thing from Forgeworld.

NELS1031 wrote:I think I had that book for about a month until GW website had it. Hope this will be a consistent thing from Forgeworld.

I seem to remember the same and my copies were lost in the mail for some time.

I dunno how much was speculation, but this is what I heard... The Imperial Armour series required separate print runs from FW's usual print run, to produce the stock for GW online store. Same book, but FW already had its inventory and GW didn't. They went through the different Imperial Armour books and built inventory, the last book was just that the last one, everything else was just further up in the queue. With Tamurkhan, the FW/WF and GW inventories were effectively built at the same time as one larger print run; thus less time between FW and GW each receiving their copies.

aka_mythos wrote:

BrassScorpion wrote:At "only" $76 US it's more than the Warhammer rule book's still amazing $74.25.

Smaller print runs means higher costs must be justified with greater margins.

So then what is the reasoning behind such a large price tag for a book that every single player "needs" in order to play?

Profit.

Aerethan wrote:

aka_mythos wrote:

BrassScorpion wrote:At "only" $76 US it's more than the Warhammer rule book's still amazing $74.25.

Smaller print runs means higher costs must be justified with greater margins.

So then what is the reasoning behind such a large price tag for a book that every single player "needs" in order to play?

You pretty much just described why.

It's "needed", but at the same time GW always goes overboard on the main rulebooks. They make them as silly impractical as possible.

Although quite frankly, I'd also say that the Mini-Rulebook from the two Starter Sets going for almost as much as a box of troops is absurd courtesy of bits sellers.

I think $20-40 for a core rule set is reasonable. The book for the game shouldn't be where the money is at, it should be on support for that game in the way of army books and models.

For me, I don't own a BRB simply because of the cost, and because it was way cheaper to buy IoB and resell the skaven, keep the book and the high elves.

Now, if GW had sold JUST the mini rulebook for $20, I'd have bought 1 for myself and 1 for each of my friends who play.

And really, with the advent of pdf's and torrents, GW is just shooting themselves in the foot by charging so much for books. I give Tamurkhan 2 maybe 3 months before a pdf shows up.

Now, if GW sold JUST rules as pdf's for a lower price than hard copy books(which requires almost no work to do, and has a reproduction cost of $0)then I'd buy every book.

It's up at the Australian website for AUD$102, so roughly 40% more expensive. Or you can just get it for AUD$80 direct from Forge World (and that includes shipping).

Aerethan wrote:
And really, with the advent of pdf's and torrents, GW is just shooting themselves in the foot by charging so much for books. I give Tamurkhan 2 maybe 3 months before a pdf shows up.

Quite frankly?

I don't give a flying crap about spankers who want a PDF. If you show up with a PDF copy of the Chaos Dwarf list in hand, and Mantic's Chaos Dwarfs demanding to be allowed to play a Chaos Dwarf army?

Hahaha. Nope. Get out.

Now, if GW sold JUST rules as pdf's for a lower price than hard copy books(which requires almost no work to do, and has a reproduction cost of $0)then I'd buy every book.

Bullocks. This always gets said, and it always comes out that PDFs are really a terrible way to do anything beyond basic reference material.

LOL @ Kan.

I have so many PDF rulebook's (FFG, Catalyst, etc.) it's not funny. They're not a 'terrible way' to do rulebooks, let alone 'anything' as you claim so hyperbolically.

Get with the program Kan. Releasing PDF's is a sensible way to release rules. Are you telling me that if, for sake of argument, FW had released this book as a PDF and someone had shown up with an iPad with that completely legally bought PDF, you wouldn't play them?

And nice jab at Mantic while you were at it. No one mentioned that, but might as well get the free hit in, amirite?

H.B.M.C. wrote:LOL @ Kan.

I have so many PDF rulebook's (FFG, Catalyst, etc.) it's not funny. They're not a 'terrible way' to do rulebooks, let alone 'anything' as you claim so hyperbolically.
Get with the program Kan. Releasing PDF's is a sensible way to release rules.

Releasing a PDF is a sensible way to release rules where one person will usually have a copy of the rules and they get shared out amongst the group.

Are you telling me that if, for sake of argument, FW had released this book as a PDF and someone had shown up with an iPad with that completely legally bought PDF, you wouldn't play them?

You must have missed the part where he talked about torrenting, huh?

If it was a "completely legally bought PDF", I'd be okay with it.

I'd be a lot less okay if they showed up with the Abyssal Dwarfs, but that's mostly because of how godawful the models are and a sneaking suspicion that my opponent might be a powergaming munchkin.

And nice jab at Mantic while you were at it. No one mentioned that, but might as well get the free hit in, amirite?

If I wanted to get a free hit in, I'd have posted in the thread about their Twilight Kin and how again they've reused a set of crummy looking models. But hey, it's okay because now they have cloaks! AND SPIKY CROSSBOWS!

The point was that if someone showed up with a clearly pirated copy of Tamurkhan's Chaos Dwarf list and the "Abyssal Dwarfs"--I'd sincerely not play them. Given the amount of whining I expect to see coming soon about the Chaos Dwarf list, I'm putting it up there with the FW Armoured Company list or the Death Korps Siege Lists--show up with the appropriate 'power' models or you don't get to field them.

I'd be a lot less okay if they showed up with the Abyssal Dwarfs, but that's mostly because of how godawful the models are and a sneaking suspicion that my opponent might be a powergaming munchkin.

What's wrong with being a powergaming munchkin? Oh I forget, we're talking about GW games here. Miniature games with rules so poor that players have to intentionally restrict themselves and build uncompetitive armies in order to maximise the fun for the other guy who closed his eyes and ears and bought all the random crap the guy in the red shirt was pushing him.

If it was a "completely legally bought PDF", I'd be okay with it.

Who made you the police officer? Just in principle I'm curious why you even care if someone's copy of a book was legal or not. He's using the same rules as you are. Do you feel cheated by the fact that your opponent didn't pay a hundred bucks for some overpriced piece of crap book with rules you could've written on a sunday morning while reading the paper at the toilet, and you did? You're one of those guys who flashes his lights in his car when he notices someone is speeding by even a tiny bit, or drives through yellow lights? Do people who play online against others care if the opponent bought his copy of the game or downloaded it from the internet? I know I don't, but I'm sure you're preaching there too against the dangers of internet piracy.

I would love if GW actually released all of their rules as downloadable PDFs and put all the crap in hobby books that painters and kids can buy. Then we could have constant updates and balancing patches to the game and the individual units' statlines and points costs, but I guess that would mean GW would actually have to hire a games design guy or two and we all know that's completely out of the question.

Taking life a little seriously aren't we Kan?

TBH I'm tempted to put you and H.B.M.C on my 'ignore' list - not because I don't like your banter, but if only to make all GW related threads half the length

I think PDF's would be a good idea. They could get with the programme and start giving rules, at least army lists, away for free or else sell the smaller 'rules only' books. I have no need to re-read the same background over-and-over again, nor do I need the pictures of the models as they're all over the internet. If I buy a Codex book these days I'm usually paying for about 40-50% of it, unless it's an army that hasn't been touched in a decade or so.

If people want to spend money on a lavish, full-colour hardback book, they're welcome. GW could do limited print runs - saving them money and so people could spend it on more minis instead. I'd like all the Imperial Armour books etc, I won't deny it - but they're too expensive for me at this time. I'd rather pay a smaller fee for a top-quality PDF than torrent a dodgy scan. There will always be scans available, or leaks. To ignore the fact and carry on regardless is like trying to stop a house fire with buckets of water when there's a fire truck parked opposite. If you're in this hobby, the chances are you're a collector, so there will always be people who'd rather have actual books at hand.

As for Tamurkhan, the bits I've seen, and the minis, it looks great. Leave it to Forgeworld to show the Chaos Dwarf's some love

Kanluwen wrote:

I'd be a lot less okay if they showed up with the Abyssal Dwarfs, but that's mostly because of how godawful the models are and a sneaking suspicion that my opponent might be a powergaming munchkin.

I'm guessing if you display the same attitude in person that you put forth here that he probably would choose to pass on a game with you anyways.

But then I guess it would be a win win for both of you...

warspawned wrote:TBH I'm tempted to put you and H.B.M.C on my 'ignore' list - not because I don't like your banter, but if only to make all GW related threads half the length

Aw c'mon! This place wouldn't be nearly as entertaining without Kan an' me now would it?

When it comes to PDF rules, I have nothing wrong with them being available in parallel to an actual book. I think there are advantages and disadvantages to both.

Aerethan wrote:

aka_mythos wrote:

BrassScorpion wrote:At "only" $76 US it's more than the Warhammer rule book's still amazing $74.25.

Smaller print runs means higher costs must be justified with greater margins.

So then what is the reasoning behind such a large price tag for a book that every single player "needs" in order to play?

First I've purchased lower quality books than the core rule book for more... so I do believe the quality justifies the price. The FW book is a "$50" book that cost $76, because of the lower volume print run, while the core rule book is $74 because its more than twice as thick as the other book.

Therion wrote:Who made you the police officer? Just in principle I'm curious why you even care if someone's copy of a book was legal or not. He's using the same rules as you are. Do you feel cheated by the fact that your opponent didn't pay a hundred bucks for some overpriced piece of crap book with rules you could've written on a sunday morning while reading the paper at the toilet, and you did? You're one of those guys who flashes his lights in his car when he notices someone is speeding by even a tiny bit, or drives through yellow lights? Do people who play online against others care if the opponent bought his copy of the game or downloaded it from the internet? I know I don't, but I'm sure you're preaching there too against the dangers of internet piracy.

If one cannot conform to the societal norms of not stealing, I cannot expect that same person not to cheat. No one made him a police officer... he's not even trying to do that. Its his choice to be principled and follow a moral code as much as it is your choice to completely lift the rules from the internet when most choose to purchase them. He's saying he wouldn't play with someone who does that, and I have to agree. If someones moral compass is so skewed that they would steal their entertainment, they are no different than a bully who takes the lunch money of other kids and there is absolutely no reason to believe they would have any intention of playing fair. No one has to be complicit in someone elses crime.

What I find ridiculous is the fact that all your examples, you take offense that someone maybe offended by someone skirting the law, but you miss an important point those people are still wrong and the person who is offended is still right, even if it isn't thier buisness. You're demanding people be complicit in wrong doings and that's just wrong.

In all honesty, I think Kan is about to become an officer of the law of sorts... So, thank the US government...

Edit: In fact, if Kan is going to be an officer of the law, I welcome it. The amount of effort takes to not just jump off the deep end and start cursing at everything, man knows how to keep his cool...


On topic: I personally look forward to seeing this book, but its going to be awhile before my gaming store is back in Warhammer Fantasy mode for awhile.