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Well, after taking a break from Warhammer for a few months to work on my EMT studies, I finally was able to get the chance to play in a game this past weekend against a few mates of mine who I havent seen in a long time. Now after working on and playing DE for awhile, I decided to get back to playing my Empire Army but decided to try something new and run my General on a Griffon to try him out to see what this guy can do. Now saying this, just looking for some combos that other fellow Empire players or opponents that have face it and what they have found that makes this option more effective in this edition thanks to the new common magic items in the rulebook. Really could use a few ideas for this and I would really appreciate any help or advice you can give.

A 200+ point, Toughness 5, Large Target with no Armour or Scaly Skin save is hard to pull off.
Terror is nowhere near what it used to be, as a large target it can be targeted by shooting attacks even if it is behind your troops and an unsupported griffon/general will not be able to break a steadfast unit by negating ranks with a flank or rear charge.
It does extend the range of your General's Inspiring Presence... but other than that its a lot of points tied up in an extremely sub-par unit.

Although after all that I still find it fun to put my High Elf Prince on one during casual games. Generally I aim to give my Prince a good armour save and a ward save because I know he's going to attract a lot of shooting/magic missiles.

Yeah, the griffon is pretty weak. As well being just too damn expensive for what you get, it also has the problem of only carrying an empire general around, and really, how many points is anyone willing to splash out for a guy with 3 attacks?

I'm aware its not the greatest thing out there, but it does give me some other options and flexibilty to try out and its something new. Being able to increase his LD bubble to 18 inches is a huge boost to an Empire Army, and not only that, it allows me to be able to fly around and support my units in CC and might be able to give me that extra something I need to win the combat. Now as it stands, here is the first combo I came up with and I plan to try him out in a few 3,000 point games tomorrow against Ogres, another Empire player and either High Elves or Chaos.

General:
-w/Sword of Sigismund, Pistol, Full Plate Armor, Dragonhelm, Shield, Holy Relic

To start, my General has a 1+ save, a 4+ ward which becomes a 2+ ward save against flaming attacks and spells from the Lore of Metal, and will have 3x S5 attacks that will ASF, which against certian units, will allow me to get the reroll to hit in CC, along with the Griffons attacks and thunderstomp. Overall, a pretty effective combo and I cant wait to try it out.

Any lone character on a large flying creature should seriously consider the stubborn crown.
Odds of you ending the game alone and on foot is high, so being hard to kill and stubborn is a very good idea.

-Matt

Well, the War Altar has a 18" inspiring presence, and is half the cost of the Griffon, and comes with a lot more benefits. Plus you can keep him centered on your army for the most of the game, supporting your troops with light magic and not flying around 20" hopelessly trying to kill stuff.

Seriously, the General on a Griffon is one of the worst choices you can take in 8th edition. With steadfast, you are not going to kill anything noteworthy, and anything you could potentially target could be taken care of with a Captasus at nearly 1/3 of the cost, and the same time not be sending your General on suicide missions.

For a budget option you could maybe try a pegasus: a lot cheaper and a ward save covers the whole model. However, you still end up with the general's completely hopeless combat stats and really it's more effective just to go with a captain.

I agree that the griffon is a poor tactical choice, but I always believe that taking something a little different and having some fun with your list is important too. Generally you should set up the terrain to you advantage, making any buildings or altars put around different central parts of the board to block los and give your griffon good places to hide.

Also the army you are facing can have a big impact on the use of a griffon. If its an empire gunline, or a DE army then you can expect to get shot up pretty quick. Armies like beastmen though which have very little shooting would be ideal and the extra strength and toughness will definitely help against those animals.

djdutton wrote:I agree that the griffon is a poor tactical choice, but I always believe that taking something a little different and having some fun with your list is important too.

Absolutely, and this is why I prefer playing less competitive games, because stuff like generals of griffons actually see the light of day, and you don't just get Empire army after Empire army with War Altars.

Another approach would be to take a 2nd general of the empire as the general. That would free up the griffin to fly off and cause havoc leaving your general in the middle of the army to provide leadership.

I wonder how two generals on two griffins would work.
A pair of them isn't that far off the cost of a solo lord on dragon, and maybe doubling up is the way to go.


-Matt

HawaiiMatt wrote:Another approach would be to take a 2nd general of the empire as the general. That would free up the griffin to fly off and cause havoc leaving your general in the middle of the army to provide leadership.

The problem, to me, is that between the griffon and the rider, they're just not that deadly a combination, and nor are they particularly tough, so they aren't free to just engage at will. Instead they end up reduced to nuisance duty, and if that's all you're getting out of them, why not take the much cheaper pegasus?

I'm mostly going to parrot what everyone else said with an example. We're in 8th edition now. The new Char mount to compare it with is an Orc Wyvern.

Wyvern costs 40 pts less, has same special rules and scaly skin 4+ and poison. And nearly the same attributes (about 2-3 less).

Next book you can expect it to be more in line with that, but right now I don't the griffon is a sensible buy.

What makes Griffons more effective in this edition? Nothing at all.
Infantry was strengthened, whereas flimsy solo monsters were weakened.

8th weakened cavalry and dragons, and griffons are just dragons which are priced worse with terrible stats. Any unit with a champion can just declare a challenge against your super expensive lord. Even if you do 11 wounds against the champion, he's steadfast (no leadership penalties) because your griffon has less ranks than his unit does. Griffons even lost around 2" of charge range on average.

200 points Griffon
S5 T5 4 wounds, no armor save, no breath weapon.

230 points Dragon
S5 T6 5 wounds, 5+ save, S2 breath weapon.

S4 shooting and magic missile do double damage against a griffon compared to a dragon, even without counting armor save. Then the extra wound adds to it even more.

Breath weapon for 2d6 autohits in combat (average 7) is worth some points even at S2. That's an extra 2-3 infantry that fall over dead and add to combat resolution.

A griffon's stats are appropriate for it costing maybe 160 or 170 points.