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Hi all,

So there many things in the Cron book I love. But, there some things that I simply cannot decide on.

The Stormlord, I here many people saying he's cheesey and underpointed. But, is he really?

Close combat, he has nothing. He can reroll hits and wounds but he has no power weapon, just fisty cuffs.
He has only one shot from his staff, its good but nothing to write home about.
Extra D3 combat res, yeah if you kill the guy, lol.
No scatter on one unit with Flayed Ones, not bad but...I wont' use flayed one really.

So what is he good at?
Stealing the init on 4+ is great, no argument....except orcs lols
Auto turn one Night fight and lightening strike on a roll of 6. This is good, sure, the shooting is good when theres enough guys on the table to shoot, but how many turns are you going to make the game Night fight? This is as much a hinderance as a gift. Turn one and two, so you can position your army, but after that?
LIke,most Necron HQ's many of this guys abilities are one use only at the start of the game, which is fine. But, after its all done what can he do? When you give up the night fight and you already rolled for Init, what does he really do?

Don't forget he's also a Phaeron, so will give the squad he's with relentless.

Which is good, but I can get a Overlord to do that much cheaper. I need reasons to take the Stormlord.

When I used him, I found he was a great bullet sponge. He absorbed a lot of Shots with his 2+, and while he doesn't have a power weapon, he's still quite powerful in CC. He's rough to take down. If you park him with a unit of Immortals, it's going to be rough to shift.

His Lightning Strikes either pay off, or they don't. Depending on how many units are in the enemy army, it can pay off big sometimes. In Reecius' battle report, he Knocked out 4 Dark Eldar Vehicles in the fist turn.

I think he is worth it, at 2k points. Having the ability to go first 75% on it's own, is pretty big, once you factor in his other abilities, he makes up for his points.

The only thing he doesn't have that a normal overlord will have is a warscythe .. Yeah this makes him sorta a gimp vs anyone with a decent save (but rerolling hits and wounds can force a decent amount of saves)

However, if you add up his wargear you're paying VERY few points for ALL of his special abilities. Phase shifter is a huge cost. This is true for some of the other special characters especially the nemesor who you basically get all of his unique abilities for free

Controlling your opponent is a HUGE bonus, never discount this

75% Chance to go first...that's pretty good. Not really thinking about it...till now.

Infinite range random anti tank, nightfighting to protect your units til you get within rapidfire/melta range, the first turn thing, 2+/3++ saves... He's a neat package. He's also your most expensive HQ, but well worth it.

I have trouble coming up with reasons to use anyone but him. The Nightfight combined with the first turn initiative thieving is just too potent... course, I'm looking at Doom Scythes and Stalkers for anti tank, so...

Can anyone clarify the exact wording of the Flayed One's DS ability on Imotekh?

Is it indeed random as Yakface originally posted or do you have some control over which unit to pinpoint?

I'm really intrigued by it ( I seem to be the only one on the planet that has 20 FO's from last edition and I'm as determined as hell to get those pretty models on the field in a strong capacity).

LOL, I'm sadily not thrilled by FO's. ANd I DON"T like the new ones

ShadarLogoth wrote:Can anyone clarify the exact wording of the Flayed One's DS ability on Imotekh?

Is it indeed random as Yakface originally posted or do you have some control over which unit to pinpoint?

I'm really intrigued by it ( I seem to be the only one on the planet that has 20 FO's from last edition and I'm as determined as hell to get those pretty models on the field in a strong capacity).

There is no control, you randomly select one non-vehicle unit during the first game turn. I mean if you build your list right with scarab swarms to overwhelm the enemy it might be an interesting idea to throw down a big unit of flayed ones.. They do have a lot of attacks. Not saying it's a great option, but if you want to take advantage of it then might as well go big (or multiple smaller units)

There is no control, you randomly select one non-vehicle unit during the first game turn. I mean if you build your list right with scarab swarms to overwhelm the enemy it might be an interesting idea to throw down a big unit of flayed ones.. They do have a lot of attacks. Not saying it's a great option, but if you want to take advantage of it then might as well go big (or multiple smaller units)

So if everything is meched up are you basically SOL? Although I guess knowing that going into turn 1 you would probably infiltrate or out flank rather then DS. Thanks for the info, gives me something to think about.

Emotekh's nightfighting is good to get Destroyers and Annihilation Barges in effective range, however, against a knowing opponent, he's not that effective. A knowing opponent would know that he would probably lose first turn and deploy in kind AND use enough night fighting war gear to negate it. On top of that, he's rather slow, so out running him is no problem.

Emotekh's Pros:
- Phaeron
- +2/++3
- Tachyon Arrow

Emoteks's Mehs:
- Nightfighting
- Random Lightning Strikes

Emotekh's Cons:
- Points cost
- Lack of Close Combat

It varies from army to army. My Mech Tau loves playing against him with their Blacksun Filters and S6 AP4 Pieplates. Watching crons evaporate since last week .

My buddy ran him for our second necron test game and I wasn't that impressed. I just gave him first turn and reserved the majority of my army. Night fight ended up hurting him worse than me, and he got zero lightning hits.

StormForged wrote:Emotekh's nightfighting is good to get Destroyers and Annihilation Barges in effective range, however, against a knowing opponent, he's not that effective. A knowing opponent would know that he would probably lose first turn and deploy in kind AND use enough night fighting war gear to negate it. On top of that, he's rather slow, so out running him is no problem.

Emotekh's Pros:
- Phaeron
- +2/++3
- Tachyon Arrow

Emoteks's Mehs:
- Nightfighting
- Random Lightning Strikes

Emotekh's Cons:
- Points cost
- Lack of Close Combat

It varies from army to army. My Mech Tau loves playing against him with their Blacksun Filters and S6 AP4 Pieplates. Watching crons evaporate since last week .

Ok, let's start at the beginning here. For one, a knowing opponent is not going to make all that much difference. It's been demonstrated in a few battle reports so far, that Acute sense/Night Vision has not helped that much vs the Night fighting. And, are you suggesting everyone is going to start adding Anti-Night fighting gear, in all of their TAC lists? I don't see that happening. There are a few armies that don't have anything to help with that. He's as slow as any foot infantry, but he can also jump into any of our Transports, two of which can move flat out.

Let's clear some other things up here as well. For one, he doesn't have a Tachyon Arrow. You also didn't mention his Seize, or his Staff of the Destroyer. His close combat doesn't have a power weapon, yeah. That doesn't mean he's a pushover though.

Also, you keep mentioning your Pieplates, like they really mean anything. Your AP4 Affects Crypteks, Warriors, Scarabs and Flayed ones. Big deal. Watch me Drop my Strength 9 AP 1 Pieplate, and an entire elite slot of yours vanishes.

Oh, and purposely misspelling Imotekh's name to "Emotekh" makes you look like a child.

Rerolling hits and wounds is better then people think.

Gauntlet is more effective against orks, GEq and Scout/nec warriors then a warscythe -- and that's without any flamer kills. Normally who cares, right? However every kill in CC is important when you get swept at I2 and don't have fearless (ask ork players). Against something like a TH/SS, the gauntlet is worse but not far off (difference is 1/36 per attack) and that difference is made up if he fires off the flamer. Of course that leaves a lot of other targets where the gauntlet is inferior (vehicles obviously and warscythe kills twice as many MEq, etc) but still I'd hardly say Stormlord 'has nothing' in cc.

Also, the thing to keep in mind with Stormlord is this: do you really want to spend points on a decent to meh CC oriented HQ in a Necron army? Or would you rather have an HQ that has significant ranged abilities and helps your army as a whole? That's a big reason why Stormlord is a fav IMO -- you aren't tossing points into something the army is meh at. 3-4 WS4 I2 warscythe attacks vs 4+ seize and lighning. I think its a fair trade off most folks will take in a heartbeat.

He is good, no doubt, and he is cheap when you compare adding up all his wargear. But, is he Eldrad good? Is he so good, that he will almost be an auto-include for Crons, as Eldrad is for Eldar, because of his advantages? Is he enough of a force multipler to be worth his points in a TAC list? This is the true test.

As a total package, I do think he is very strong. Only time will tell if he is strong enough to become a near-auto-include, or if he is just the FOTM.

As for Nightfighting, I am not so sure this is as strong as his other abilities. This is simply because Imperial vehicles already come with spotlights. This can be a stong counter to nightfighting, especially on vehicles that scout. Tau usually take Blasksun Filters on their Hammerheads and Broadsides, anyway, due to 1/3 of games being DoW. This means that between Imperials and Tau alone, there are quite a few dexes that need to make no changes to their list in order to deal with his nightfighting. Then we have Eldar and Orks. Eldar have no acces to night-fight counters, so they will continue to do what they already do, and start in reserve, countering both nightfighting and lightning, and Orks will usually be coming straight at the Crons to get into CC and avoid getting shot, so again, no biggie for Nightfighting. This leaves his nightfighting as being REALLY good against DE, Chaos, and Nids, while being marginally good aginst all others.

His true strength lies in Siezing and Lightning strikes. Siezing is good against MANY opponents, and lightning stikes can decimate MSU armies. His own personal shooting and CC are nothing to sneeze at either

Where he will be overcosted is when facing any reserve army that negates his first turn abilities: Mechdar, Pods, DoA, etc. Against such armies, he will bring very little extra for his extra points cost.

Sasori wrote:

StormForged wrote:Emotekh's nightfighting is good to get Destroyers and Annihilation Barges in effective range, however, against a knowing opponent, he's not that effective. A knowing opponent would know that he would probably lose first turn and deploy in kind AND use enough night fighting war gear to negate it. On top of that, he's rather slow, so out running him is no problem.

Emotekh's Pros:
- Phaeron
- +2/++3
- Tachyon Arrow

Emoteks's Mehs:
- Nightfighting
- Random Lightning Strikes

Emotekh's Cons:
- Points cost
- Lack of Close Combat

It varies from army to army. My Mech Tau loves playing against him with their Blacksun Filters and S6 AP4 Pieplates. Watching crons evaporate since last week .

Ok, let's start at the beginning here. For one, a knowing opponent is not going to make all that much difference. It's been demonstrated in a few battle reports so far, that Acute sense/Night Vision has not helped that much vs the Night fighting. And, are you suggesting everyone is going to start adding Anti-Night fighting gear, in all of their TAC lists? I don't see that happening. There are a few armies that don't have anything to help with that. He's as slow as any foot infantry, but he can also jump into any of our Transports, two of which can move flat out.

Let's clear some other things up here as well. For one, he doesn't have a Tachyon Arrow. You also didn't mention his Seize, or his Staff of the Destroyer. His close combat doesn't have a power weapon, yeah. That doesn't mean he's a pushover though.

Also, you keep mentioning your Pieplates, like they really mean anything. Your AP4 Affects Crypteks, Warriors, Scarabs and Flayed ones. Big deal. Watch me Drop my Strength 9 AP 1 Pieplate, and an entire elite slot of yours vanishes.

Oh, and purposely misspelling Imotekh's name to "Emotekh" makes you look like a child.

Sasori

I also love the anecdotal "I plaid one game and he didn't do shat." I guarantee somewhere somebody is going to play a game where he destroys/damages 4 or 5 vehicles in the first turn and they are going to think he's the bee knees (what a ridiculous expression, I mean what's so great about bees with knees?).

Alerian wrote:He is good, no doubt, and he is cheap when you compare adding up all his wargear. But, is he Eldrad good? Is he so good, that he will almost be an auto-include for Crons, as Eldrad is for Eldar, because of his advantages? Is he enough of a force multipler to be worth his point sin a TAC list? This is the true test.

As a total package, I do think he is very strong. Only time will tell if is is strong enough to become a near-auto-include, or if he is just the FOTM.

As for Nightfighting, I am not so sure this is as strong as his other abilities. This is simply because Imperial vehicles already come with spotlights. This can be a stong counter to nightfighting, especially on vehicles that scout. Tau usually take Blasksun Filters on their Hammerheads and Broadsides, anyway, due to 1/3 of games being DoW. This means that between Imperials and Tau, there are quite a few dexes that need to make no changes to their list in order to deal with his nightfighting. Eldar have no acces to night-fight counters, so they will continue to do what they already do, and start in reserve, countering both nightfighting anf lightning. Orks will usually be comng straight at the Crons to get inot CC and avoid getting shot, so again, no biggie for Nightfighting. This leaves his nightfighting as being REALLY good against DE, Tau, and Nids, while being marginally good aginst all others.

His true strength lies in Siezing and Lightning strikes. Siezing is good against MANY opponents, and lightning stikes can decimate MSU armies. His own personal shooting and CC are nothing to sneeze at either

Where he will be overcosted is when facing any reserve army that negates his first turn abilities: Mechdar, Pods, DoA, etc. Against such armies, he will bring very little extra for his extra points cost.

Well said!

Imotekh is pretty good. I don't know if hes an auto-include as an overlord w/ scythe in a barge seems far better (and cheaper); plus, you can get 2 solar pulses anyway, which means you can get into rapid fire/tesla/pewpew range pretty easily without him. So it really depends; if you play a lot of MSU, DE, etc. armies, he'll probably do you proud. But its still a 1/6 chance per vehicle per turn.

Well said!

Imotekh is pretty good. I don't know if hes an auto-include as an overlord w/ scythe in a barge seems far better (and cheaper); plus, you can get 2 solar pulses anyway, which means you can get into rapid fire/tesla/pewpew range pretty easily without him. So it really depends; if you play a lot of MSU, DE, etc. armies, he'll probably do you proud. But its still a 1/6 chance per vehicle per turn.

Good points to all previous posters. I would HOPE he's not an auto include. In a well designed codex such concepts shouldn't even exist (Although I agree there are certainly units in many codices that are very hard to pass up).

ShadarLogoth wrote:

Well said!

Imotekh is pretty good. I don't know if hes an auto-include as an overlord w/ scythe in a barge seems far better (and cheaper); plus, you can get 2 solar pulses anyway, which means you can get into rapid fire/tesla/pewpew range pretty easily without him. So it really depends; if you play a lot of MSU, DE, etc. armies, he'll probably do you proud. But its still a 1/6 chance per vehicle per turn.

Good points to all previous posters. I would HOPE he's not an auto include. In a well designed codex such concepts shouldn't even exist (Although I agree there are certainly units in many codices that are very hard to pass up).

Well, this is true, but some things (*cough* mephiston *cough*) definitely don't turn out that way!

Sasori wrote:

StormForged wrote:Emotekh's nightfighting is good to get Destroyers and Annihilation Barges in effective range, however, against a knowing opponent, he's not that effective. A knowing opponent would know that he would probably lose first turn and deploy in kind AND use enough night fighting war gear to negate it. On top of that, he's rather slow, so out running him is no problem.

Emotekh's Pros:
- Phaeron
- +2/++3
- Tachyon Arrow

Emoteks's Mehs:
- Nightfighting
- Random Lightning Strikes

Emotekh's Cons:
- Points cost
- Lack of Close Combat

It varies from army to army. My Mech Tau loves playing against him with their Blacksun Filters and S6 AP4 Pieplates. Watching crons evaporate since last week .

Ok, let's start at the beginning here. For one, a knowing opponent is not going to make all that much difference. It's been demonstrated in a few battle reports so far, that Acute sense/Night Vision has not helped that much vs the Night fighting. And, are you suggesting everyone is going to start adding Anti-Night fighting gear, in all of their TAC lists? I don't see that happening. There are a few armies that don't have anything to help with that. He's as slow as any foot infantry, but he can also jump into any of our Transports, two of which can move flat out.

Let's clear some other things up here as well. For one, he doesn't have a Tachyon Arrow. You also didn't mention his Seize, or his Staff of the Destroyer. His close combat doesn't have a power weapon, yeah. That doesn't mean he's a pushover though.

Also, you keep mentioning your Pieplates, like they really mean anything. Your AP4 Affects Crypteks, Warriors, Scarabs and Flayed ones. Big deal. Watch me Drop my Strength 9 AP 1 Pieplate, and an entire elite slot of yours vanishes.

Oh, and purposely misspelling Imotekh's name to "Emotekh" makes you look like a child.

While I agree with what you said for the most part, I disagree about the whole "no one is going to add nightfighting gear". If the Necron comp army uses The Herald of the Storm ( Sounds cooler. BTW was the Actual Herald of the Storm mentioned in the codex?) more people will open up to using Nightfighting Gear.

Nightfighting appears in 1/3 of ALL games regardless of What HQs are on the board, so it is a good idea to prepare for said 1/3 games with the correct wargear.

I think in my(Tau) army list, I have spent 30 points on Nightfighting wargear, Ten of that was in my Army list LONG before we knew about the Stormlord. I added Blacksun Filters to my Tanks because railguns losing out on a turn of firing sucks. Did I think about this prior to the Stormlord? No. Does it still make my list more effective than it was before? Yes, even when not playing against Necrons lead by Imotekh, 1/3 of the games will have one turn of nightfighting, where on average my Hammerhead will only see 18 inches. with the Filter they can see on average 36 inches, putting more in the Hammerhead's Threat Range.

Now I'm not saying go crazy overboard with every single model having a way to lessen the threat of Nightfighting, but about 1% of all of your points(I use 1.5%) should be more than enough to help lessen the crippling effects of nightfighting.

Sasori wrote:
I think he is worth it, at 2k points. Having the ability to go first 75% on it's own, is pretty big, once you factor in his other abilities, he makes up for his points.

66%. If you get 1st turn on the initial roll, the enemy can also try to seize from you.

He's definitely not a no-brainer like a lot of people are saying. In both ranged and CC, he's a lot less powerful than most of the other HQ choices. And he's got a lot of points sunk into defensive wargear and stuff like Phaeron that isn't going to be that helpful when he's joined to the most likely units - Lychguard or Royal Courts. And he's just terrible on the Command Barge.

On the plus side, his actual good abilities, the night fighting, the lightning strikes, and seizing the initiative, don't require him to do anything or be anywhere specific. Against typical MSU lists, the lightning strikes are super-strong. Against more balanced lists, the night fighting is still helpful. I'd rather pay 40 points for two solar pulses on the Harbingers of Destruction that I'm taking anyway. Odds are very low that the enemy is going to be far enough away on turn 3 for night fighting to be more than an unlucky kick in the pants every once in a while.

For 225 points, he's not doing much to kill enemy units, and if he gets caught in CC, he's most likely going to stay tarpitted for the rest of the game. Going first isn't enough of an advantage, especially with Cryptek Solar Pulses available to mitigate first-turn alpha strikes.

Emperor awfulness wrote:He's definitely not a no-brainer like a lot of people are saying. In both ranged and CC, he's a lot less powerful than most of the other HQ choices. And he's got a lot of points sunk into defensive wargear and stuff like Phaeron that isn't going to be that helpful when he's joined to the most likely units - Lychguard or Royal Courts. And he's just terrible on the Command Barge.

On the plus side, his actual good abilities, the night fighting, the lightning strikes, and seizing the initiative, don't require him to do anything or be anywhere specific. Against typical MSU lists, the lightning strikes are super-strong. Against more balanced lists, the night fighting is still helpful. I'd rather pay 40 points for two solar pulses on the Harbingers of Destruction that I'm taking anyway. Odds are very low that the enemy is going to be far enough away on turn 3 for night fighting to be more than an unlucky kick in the pants every once in a while.

For 225 points, he's not doing much to kill enemy units, and if he gets caught in CC, he's most likely going to stay tarpitted for the rest of the game. Going first isn't enough of an advantage, especially with Cryptek Solar Pulses available to mitigate first-turn alpha strikes.

This right here. He's good....but not OP

If you really want night fighting, why not take Crypteks with Solar Pulses? That's more reliable anyway. The Stormlord is certainly cool but I don't think he's an autoinclude. In my test games he has been very lackluster for his points.

Emperor awfulness wrote:He's definitely not a no-brainer like a lot of people are saying. In both ranged and CC, he's a lot less powerful than most of the other HQ choices.

Good points for the most part, but not sure what you mean by this quote. Some one math hammered previusoly in the thread that his CC prowess is much better then people think, and he has some pretty good (albeit limited range) shooting options that other lords won't have (primarily because they will be taking Warscythes).

His basic configuration gives you everything you might want to throw on an Overlord anyway to give a large Warrior squad some CC punch, minus the Warscythe of course, and he comes with some very nice abilities on top.

Again not "must include" (and thank the NightBringer for that), but definitely viable. Personally I love the diversity of builds I'm seeing already including all the various HQ choices. Progressing against homogenisation is definitely to be encouraged.

I've been using Imotekh in this squad:

1x Imotekh
1x Harbinger of Despair
-----Abyssal Staff
-----Veil of Darkness
1x Harbinger of Eternity
-----Aeonstave
-----Chronometron
7x Pyrrhian Eternals

And I also use Akrakyr the Traveller in the same army at 2k points, hence the Pyrrhian Eternals. Yes, it's expensive, and I've found it to be devastating as a clean-up crew. For the first turn or two, the Chronometron allows you to re-roll one of Imotekh's lightning strikes if you get a low number of strikes out of it, and in later turns, the VoD moves the unit around the board, with the Chronometron really being useful against DS scatters. And then the short-range shooting pays off. Imotekh's Gauntlet of Fire, the Abyssal Staff and the relentless Pyrrhian Eternals are fantastic at mowing down troops with short-range fire, and then in CC, the gauntlet allows Imotekh to re-roll hits and wounds, and the Pyrrhian Eternals have Furious Charge and Counterattack. The unit is not a Death Star, but it's a very mobile scoring unit and very effective at wiping out squads that have been pelted with fire previously. Combine this use of Imotekh with the 4+ seize, and I would definitely say he's worth his points.

Seeing two Baal Predators use their scout move to retreat toward their own table edge after Imotekh seizes the initiative is hilarious.

azazel the cat wrote: Seeing two Baal Predators use their scout move to retreat toward their own table edge after Imotekh seizes the initiative is hilarious.

Siezing is done after scout moves...