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First off, I'm aware the problematic nature of capturing a necron. They teleport away and self-destruct if they cant' be teleported for whatever reason. That's not what I wanted to discuss, what I wanted to discuss is whether or not it would be possible, if by some miracle a necron was captured (invading the catachombs of a tomb world itself while the necrons still slumbered perhaps?) to torture them. The reason I ask this, is to understand a bit of motivation behind Dark Eldar fighting Necrons. They couldn't be doing it for the slaves (see the aforementioned problems in capturing necrons, and add in the problem of making them subservient) and are unlikely to do it for prestige. Not to mention, I believe I read somewhere in the new codex that the necrons feel no physical pain. So reinvigorating themselves it out too. But, what if, what if an Archon had the little idea to steal away with a necron lord. And since physical torture would be ineffective, torture the mind. Cue creative psychological torture methods that would be like the rarest of rare wines for an Archon. A type of pain and suffering he'd never experienced before. But would it be possible? Do the necrons have genuine personalities and mental faculties that could be teased and tormented? Or is it really just programming and code, like a computer?

Cattle Prods?

Show them the number 2 in a binary sequence?

Use a logical Paradox?

Force them to read all of the Storm Lord's special rules...

...IN A SINGLE SITTING

Fafnir wrote:Force them to read all of the Storm Lord's special rules...

...IN A SINGLE SITTING

GENIUS!

But srs faic, I don't believe you could successfully torture a Necron in any meaningful way. They do have personalities and such, at least the Lords and Crypteks do, but they can't feel any kind of emotion. They wouldn't get frustrated, angry, scared.... They'd probably be able to sit there and take psychological torture. Physical torture actually seems more possible, if you go by Damnos. They can't feel pain, but you can trap them in a state where they're constantly trying to self repair. I'm not sure what a self conscious Necron would think of this, but in Damnos, a warrior is badly damaged, but not enough to warrant teleporting back to the Tomb. It's trying to self repair but really powerful magnets keep its body separated. Assuming the Necron Lord remained conscious during this, too badly damaged to move, but not enough to teleport back, I'd imagine it would be a strain even on him.

Honestly, I don't know what the Dark Eldar would do with Necrons, though don't they have arenas? I can see them sticking a Necron Lord in an arena with a bunch of captured Tau or something and sitting back to eat popcorn. I'll admit, despite wanting to start them, I haven't bought the DE codex, so I don't know a lot about them and their ways.

Play them Justin Bieber music, that will make even Chaos Gods mad.

John Connor: Does it hurt when you get shot?
The Terminator: I sense injuries. The data could be called "pain."

I doubt you could torture a Necron, at least not without someone with a PhD in Comp Sci. DE could make use of flayed ones as fighters against their other slaves, the fact that the flayed ones are grade-A loco, and can pop in and out of reality probably means that wouldn't be a particularly good plan.

Dytalus wrote:
But srs faic, I don't believe you could successfully torture a Necron in any meaningful way. They do have personalities and such, at least the Lords and Crypteks do, but they can't feel any kind of emotion. They wouldn't get frustrated, angry, scared.... They'd probably be able to sit there and take psychological torture. Physical torture actually seems more possible, if you go by Damnos. They can't feel pain, but you can trap them in a state where they're constantly trying to self repair. I'm not sure what a self conscious Necron would think of this, but in Damnos, a warrior is badly damaged, but not enough to warrant teleporting back to the Tomb. It's trying to self repair but really powerful magnets keep its body separated. Assuming the Necron Lord remained conscious during this, too badly damaged to move, but not enough to teleport back, I'd imagine it would be a strain even on him.

Honestly, I don't know what the Dark Eldar would do with Necrons, though don't they have arenas? I can see them sticking a Necron Lord in an arena with a bunch of captured Tau or something and sitting back to eat popcorn. I'll admit, despite wanting to start them, I haven't bought the DE codex, so I don't know a lot about them and their ways.

Yeah, I'm beginning to wonder, fluff-wise, why the Dark Eldar would ever combat the Necrons. They seem to have nothing to gain from it. If there is no pain to be inflicted, then the Dark Eldar gain no sustenance. They can't be made into slaves and so on. I could see them used as fighters in the arena, but then there would be no joy felt upon death. It'd be cool if the other guy lost, because then they could feed on his suffering, but if the necron loses then it's like 'OH WELL, THAT LOOKED PRETTY BUT DID NOTHING FOR MY WRINKLES.'

But I mean. From the way I read the codex (and I admit, I was skimming because I was borrowing the store copy and wanted to get to the rules) they sound like they do have personalities, and independent thought. Like they're regular beings, but just bound to a mechanical body. Which means they could feel fear, or pain. Like the pain of losing their standing in a royal court for example. Obviously the Dark Eldar aren't going to make up a mock court to strip the captured lord of his title for the meager pain that would cause. I'm thinking more legitimate psychological torture methods, although considering we're talking about a machine it would have to be some weird tactics to mess with their heads.

I could see the DE fighting the Necrons rather frequently in Necron webway incursions. If that's what you're trying to justify?

Lokas wrote:

Dytalus wrote:
But srs faic, I don't believe you could successfully torture a Necron in any meaningful way. They do have personalities and such, at least the Lords and Crypteks do, but they can't feel any kind of emotion. They wouldn't get frustrated, angry, scared.... They'd probably be able to sit there and take psychological torture. Physical torture actually seems more possible, if you go by Damnos. They can't feel pain, but you can trap them in a state where they're constantly trying to self repair. I'm not sure what a self conscious Necron would think of this, but in Damnos, a warrior is badly damaged, but not enough to warrant teleporting back to the Tomb. It's trying to self repair but really powerful magnets keep its body separated. Assuming the Necron Lord remained conscious during this, too badly damaged to move, but not enough to teleport back, I'd imagine it would be a strain even on him.

Honestly, I don't know what the Dark Eldar would do with Necrons, though don't they have arenas? I can see them sticking a Necron Lord in an arena with a bunch of captured Tau or something and sitting back to eat popcorn. I'll admit, despite wanting to start them, I haven't bought the DE codex, so I don't know a lot about them and their ways.

Yeah, I'm beginning to wonder, fluff-wise, why the Dark Eldar would ever combat the Necrons. They seem to have nothing to gain from it. If there is no pain to be inflicted, then the Dark Eldar gain no sustenance. They can't be made into slaves and so on. I could see them used as fighters in the arena, but then there would be no joy felt upon death. It'd be cool if the other guy lost, because then they could feed on his suffering, but if the necron loses then it's like 'OH WELL, THAT LOOKED PRETTY BUT DID NOTHING FOR MY WRINKLES.'

But I mean. From the way I read the codex (and I admit, I was skimming because I was borrowing the store copy and wanted to get to the rules) they sound like they do have personalities, and independent thought. Like they're regular beings, but just bound to a mechanical body. Which means they could feel fear, or pain. Like the pain of losing their standing in a royal court for example. Obviously the Dark Eldar aren't going to make up a mock court to strip the captured lord of his title for the meager pain that would cause. I'm thinking more legitimate psychological torture methods, although considering we're talking about a machine it would have to be some weird tactics to mess with their heads.

Yeah, it's certainly not an easy process to mess with a Necrons head. They do have individual personalities, but it's described as programming. The basic programming of a Necron is rebuild the dynasties, their programming degrades due to age and so forth.

Honestly, the only reason I can think of atm for DE to fight the 'crons would be along the lines of "If they kill/enslave everyone, we have no souls to keep us alive" sort of thing. I'd imagine it's a similar motive to why they'd combat Tyranids.

BrainDeleted wrote:I could see the DE fighting the Necrons rather frequently in Necron webway incursions. If that's what you're trying to justify?

That's actually a good point. I hadn't thought of that. Could say the 'crons stumbled across my Kabal's port-spur while on their way to stomp somebody else. Cue a crazy fight in a realm where physics just kinda says 'Eh, whatever. You guys have fun.'

Dytalus wrote:Yeah, it's certainly not an easy process to mess with a Necrons head. They do have individual personalities, but it's described as programming. The basic programming of a Necron is rebuild the dynasties, their programming degrades due to age and so forth.

Honestly, the only reason I can think of atm for DE to fight the 'crons would be along the lines of "If they kill/enslave everyone, we have no souls to keep us alive" sort of thing. I'd imagine it's a similar motive to why they'd combat Tyranids.

Actually, the DE have enslaved the Tyranids before. Captured them in hexcages, brought them back, and had all sorts of fun with them. But again, another good reason. Enemy of my enemy is kind of a dick, so let's kill him too.

Brother Coa wrote:Play them Justin Bieber music, that will make even Chaos Gods mad.

better yet: make them read their own fluff

Make them install Windows '98...

They're supposedly soulless. You can piss off a Lord, but it does not resonate in the Warp, so I doubt it will accomplish anything. Do DE's get power from torturing machines? If that's so just go grab some Mechanicus stuff and torture a machine spirit.

according to the short stories as part of the battle report in the latest white dwarf they can feel pain in incorrectly or not repaired joints, of course how canon that really is would be easily disputed

Alpha Legionaire wrote:Make them install Windows Vista...

Fixed that for you there.*

Could always subject them to EMP blasts every now and then. Or subject them to interrogation by a psyker who uses the telekinesis power 'Machine Empathy'

*Windows 98 wasn't that bad! I used it for years without any issues.

CT GAMER wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:Play them Justin Bieber music, that will make even Chaos Gods mad.

better yet: make them read their own fluff

They'd love it. At least they now have something interesting to read about rather than "WE ARE SLAVES AND WE KILL THINGS".

Windows Vista has failed to open application "destroy human".
Windows Vista will now shut down.

It looks like you're trying to end all sentient life in the universe. Do you want help?

They torture a necron in FOD, by using magnets to stop it from self repairing, but not damaged enough to phase out.

Not saying that i approve of FOD/New codex's fluff, though :(

Lokas wrote:...Cue a crazy fight in a realm where physics just kinda says 'Eh, whatever. You guys have fun.'

Lokas wrote:...Enemy of my enemy is kind of a dick, so let's kill him too.

Some pretty good lines there

Gonna put that second one in my Sig.

If it has eyes it can watch "Bratz the movie."

That is all.

You could give Trazyn, when you do manage to capture him, a tour through a museum and them destroy the building afterword.

Make him listen to rebecca blacks friday on repeat.


NOm

Ma55ter_fett wrote:If it has eyes it can watch "Bratz the movie."

That is all.

OH GOD.
HIDE.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:Show them the number 2 in a binary sequence?

Use a logical Paradox?

Only would work on the Higher Ups (ie the ones with intelligence)

Can you rick roll necrons?

If not I would go with installing Windows Vista.

*Necron Overlord has encountered a critical error and will now shut down...

Simple, if Independence Day rules come into play.

i=1
Do while i>0
Hitface
Loop

iproxtaco wrote:

CT GAMER wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:Play them Justin Bieber music, that will make even Chaos Gods mad.

better yet: make them read their own fluff

They'd love it. At least they now have something interesting to read about rather than "WE ARE SLAVES AND WE KILL THINGS".

nomsheep wrote:Make him listen to rebecca blacks friday on repeat.


NOm

Who do you think created all of it?

iproxtaco wrote:

CT GAMER wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:Play them Justin Bieber music, that will make even Chaos Gods mad.

better yet: make them read their own fluff

They'd love it. At least they now have something interesting to read about rather than "WE ARE SLAVES AND WE KILL THINGS".

This post is so true...

Don't forget the sense of megalomania that many (if not all) Archon's possess. It might be worth it to trap a Necron Lord in a stasis field to put on display in your foyer if only because it gives you more credibility to your "neighbors" or spurs a hated rival to then have to try and one up you (risking horrific failure and humiliation in the process).

For more regular encounters two pirate forces (as Necrons have those now) might wind up at the same place at the same time, the Dark Eldar might want to engage the Necrons and maneuver the situation such that the 'crons end up in a protracted war with another race (the old draw them in and disappear trick -- presumably so the DE can attain some other goal), or (as has been mentioned before) a fight over a webway entrance.

As far as actual torture is concerned..

A Necron Lord with a sense of pride might take a tremendous amount of insult or anger (as the new fluff might indicate is possible) at being used as a pawn and plaything by the very creatures that pushed them to go into hibernation in the first place (especially [I might be oversimplifying this of course] when the sleep was supposed to make them "go away").