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Well mates, today at my store I played a 2,500 point game of Empire against the new Ogres, and after I managed to pull off the win, my opponent kept complaining that the only reason he lost was because he couldn't stop my Lvl. 4 casting spells to save his life since he was running two Lvl. 2 Butchers. After I told him that he could of switched his 2x Lvl. 2's to get a Lvl 4, he claimed that having a single Lvl. 4 Wizard isnt as effective as two Lvl. 2 Wizards can be, and soon enough, my ENTIRE store got into a debate over this issue, which pretty much stopped any more fantasy games for the rest of the night. Now this got me thinking and I am just wondering which do you guys find more effective in 8th edition. 2x Lvl. 2 Wizards or a Lvl. 4 Lord choice and why?

Your opponent seems confused. Either he lost because your level 4 was overpowering his level 2s, or 2 level 2s are more effective...

Generally speaking the level 4 helps make the most out of the dice you have. Certainly, I have a harder time shutting down a single level 4 in the magic phase than 2 level 2s.

That being said, there were a number of successful armies at the GT I attended last weekend that only brought level 2s...

Really it depends on the whole army build. I've been running 3 lvl 2's (two Heralds of Tzeentch) and a block of horrors. The last tourney the top table for round 3 was me vs a HE player with 2 lvl 2's of shadow. We each however had a big fighty lord. A bloodthirster for me and he had a prince on the mid level dragon.

I think for some armies it works, but not all. I have to accept being pushed around in the magic phase but if I fail to have enough power I have another mage. The question is what does the fighty lord bring to the battle as opposed to the lvl 4.

I think it depends on the army. I usually run one lvl 4 and two lvl 1s with my Beastmen. In fact, I practically refuse to play if I don't have my lvl 4 shadow wizard.

It all depends really, on what armie you field. the buil of said armies and such, I do howeevr find Lvl 4 magicans much more useful than lvl 2. but having one lvl4 and one lvl 2 is just much more efficent.

Level 4:
-You get an extra +2 per spell/dispel
-USUALLY get a cost discount (2 lvl 2 costlier than 1 lvl 4).
-Closer to Loremaster in 1 lore, i.e., less likelihood of having all suck spells
-Mark Twain had a guide to finance: Put all your eggs in one basket AND THEN WATCH THAT BASKET!

2 Level 2:
-Extra channel attempt
-More wounds
-More targets
-Harder to shut down via miscast bombing and such aka ^
-2 Lores
-2 choices of signature spells if you don't like what you roll
-2 Lore Attributes (which can essentially be a free spell effect)
-2 repositories for magic items, even if the total is less or the same

So I think more than anything it depends on what you fight, not so much what you field. The +2 is nice, because it's a +2 that can't miscast. I think that's the best reason. With a close second being a choice of spells.

I prefer a lvl 4 and a lvl 2 or a lvl 4 and two lvl2s.
I play at 2.5k usually as woc or ogres.
Ogres a lvl 4 and a lvl 1 or 2 and a firebelly lvl 1.

I think the lvl 4 is needed for the boost to casting and dispelling and a supper casterfor scroll carrying and such.

DukeRustfield wrote:Level 4:
-You get an extra +2 per spell/dispel
-USUALLY get a cost discount (2 lvl 2 costlier than 1 lvl 4).
-Closer to Loremaster in 1 lore, i.e., less likelihood of having all suck spells
-Mark Twain had a guide to finance: Put all your eggs in one basket AND THEN WATCH THAT BASKET!

2 Level 2:
-Extra channel attempt
-More wounds
-More targets
-Harder to shut down via miscast bombing and such aka ^
-2 Lores
-2 choices of signature spells if you don't like what you roll
-2 Lore Attributes (which can essentially be a free spell effect)
-2 repositories for magic items, even if the total is less or the same

Good rundown on the trade-offs, here's one more for each:

1 Level 4:
- Access to more / restricted lores (WoC, Beasts, Brets, Wood Elves, etc)

2 Level 2:
- More 'expendable' so less damaging when used in 'mandatory IF' situations (i.e. when double six is the only way to get the key spell off) or for suicide miscasts (damaging enemy in base by pushing for miscasts)

It's actually a pretty interesting choice all told.

- Salvage

I pick the level 4 because Lore of Athel Loren sucks.

neither, its best to have both a Lvl4 and a lvl2(or 2)

Empire have cheap enough characters that a Lector for the leadership and a Level 4 for the spells is always an option.