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What is this rumor I've haven't heard about it befor le but would like to know more.

I would like to note I don't play grey knights but my friend does and thinks dragio is pure so I want to knock him down abit.

No, he's not, he is something worse. He is Mat(t) Ward's attempt to bring back everyone's favorite Spirtual Leige, but thankfully GW made him rename the character.

Oh..bugger. I hate you matt ward!!!!

Commissar Typhus wrote:No, he's not, he is something worse. He is Mat(t) Ward's attempt to bring back everyone's favorite Spirtual Leige, but thankfully GW made him rename the character.

Thanks for contributing absolutely nothing other than WardWhining, answering nothing of the question presented, and posting absolute drivel in a Background thread.
Great job!

Lygris Axon wrote:What is this rumor I've haven't heard about it befor le but would like to know more.

I would like to note I don't play grey knights but my friend does and thinks dragio is pure so I want to knock him down a bit.

I think you're crossing a bit of wires.

Myself and a few others have likened Draigo to a Daemon for one simple fact:
He now is reliant upon the same method to enter the realm of the material world. He needs to "crossover" at the same points as a major Daemonic incursion, which is why whenever he's seen by the Grey Knights or Imperial forces he's usually at the site of the incursion proper holding the Warp Rift against anything coming through after him.

Commissar Typhus wrote:No, he's not, he is something worse. He is Mat(t) Ward's attempt to bring back everyone's favorite Spirtual Leige, but thankfully GW made him rename the character.

Are you insinuating that the character known as Draigo was intended to be the Emperor returned instead?

Because I might actually go in for that idea.

Ixion wrote:

Commissar Typhus wrote:No, he's not, he is something worse. He is Mat(t) Ward's attempt to bring back everyone's favorite Spirtual Leige, but thankfully GW made him rename the character.

Are you insinuating that the character known as Draigo was intended to be the Emperor returned instead?

Because I might actually go in for that idea.

the "spiritual liege" is robute guilliman. (inserting a pic when I can get 1D4chan again )

Chuck Norris wrote:

Ixion wrote:

Commissar Typhus wrote:No, he's not, he is something worse. He is Mat(t) Ward's attempt to bring back everyone's favorite Spirtual Leige, but thankfully GW made him rename the character.

Are you insinuating that the character known as Draigo was intended to be the Emperor returned instead?

Because I might actually go in for that idea.

the "spiritual liege" is robute guilliman. (inserting a pic when I can get 1D4chan again )

Or you can actually contribute to the discussion instead of regurgitating crap from that hateful cesspit of unintelligible malcontents.

Kanluwen wrote:

Chuck Norris wrote:

Ixion wrote:

Commissar Typhus wrote:No, he's not, he is something worse. He is Mat(t) Ward's attempt to bring back everyone's favorite Spirtual Leige, but thankfully GW made him rename the character.

Are you insinuating that the character known as Draigo was intended to be the Emperor returned instead?

Because I might actually go in for that idea.

the "spiritual liege" is robute guilliman. (inserting a pic when I can get 1D4chan again )

Or you can actually contribute to the discussion instead of regurgitating crap from that hateful cesspit of unintelligible malcontents.

I was just letting Ixion know who the "spriritual liege was...

Edit: and one theory is that draigo is an embodiment of malal, the god of anarchy(?) and the chaos god who fights chaos gods.

Malal is dead, and will not be mentioned in 40k again.

Malice however will be.

Malal also was not a "Chaos God who fights Chaos Gods". He was a Chaos God who embodied Chaos itself, the idea of Chaos incarnate(things such as the Serpent devouring its own tail, etc).

Draigo is not a Daemon, he is just protected by Emperor in Warp.

Draigo is a myth... nothing more or less. that he shows up on the Battlefield does not mean that he actually did all the things that the myth tells of.
and even if he did, whos to say thats what really happened?

the concept is so full of holes its not even worth it to consider valid. fluff is fluff... not allways reliable...

Draigo is a beast...

Chuck Norris wrote: the "spiritual liege" is robute guilliman. (inserting a pic when I can get 1D4chan again )

Spoiler:

Ah. Okay, that does sound kind of dumb, but it would actually make sense with the existing themes-- Robute Guilliman and Draigo are both spectacularly powerful badasses and presented as the best in all things.

(Also, pic is broken, but fret not, I have seen both characters in question.)

tarnish wrote:Draigo is a myth... nothing more or less. that he shows up on the Battlefield does not mean that he actually did all the things that the myth tells of.
and even if he did, whos to say thats what really happened?

the concept is so full of holes its not even worth it to consider valid. fluff is fluff... not allways reliable...

Even if he was a myth, myths can have power in 40K if their is sufficient belief enough in them, so that could still alllow for a "Draigo" to exist and behave in the way described.

When Draigo is likened to a daemon, people are not literally saying "he is a daemon" like he is some sort of worshipper of chaos. Draigo is a warp entity/power with the traits and abilities of a daemon (or more likely, a daemon prince) but one that is aligned with humanity/The Emperor. It is perfectly internally consistent for the human 'god' to have its own daemon-like entities.

If a person is offended at the idea of Draigo being like a daemon, then liken him to an Avatar of Khaine or something... the principle is still similar.

"Draigo is a daemon!" came about because there's a fairly vocal contingent on Dakka who don't want to admit that Draigo's fluff is, by and large, a pile of poorly-written gak intended for thirteen year-olds. They prefer to instead say that the rest of us just don't "get" him or Ward, and there's got to be some other explanation for all the ridiculously over-the-top bs he's stated to have done. It started out as a Sisyphean allegory - "None of it matters! He's the ultimate metaphor for the Imperium, winning victories but still ultimately losing!" - and then progressed to the, "Maybe he's a daemon? That'd make some of his shenanigans make sense!"

Thus, Draigo is a Daemon.

Draigo is Draigo, whatever that is. He's the most awesomest, kewlest, totally-not-a-Mary-Sue-est guy evar!

The Draigo=daemon argument is an attempt to fit in Draigo with everything that came before him. Some others are 'Draigo is propaganda', 'Draigo is a myth', and 'Draigo is totally off his rocker and his fluff is just what he thinks he's done, while he is actually a prisoner the gods occasionally let into realspace for their own amusement.'

For the Record, it has been stated in multiple locations, i.e. books, codexes and bios that no Grey Knight has ever fallen to the Warp in anyway. Regardless of his past he still is the Grand Master and is incorruptible.

Durza wrote:The Draigo=daemon argument is an attempt to fit in Draigo with everything that came before him. Some others are 'Draigo is propaganda', 'Draigo is a myth', and 'Draigo is totally off his rocker and his fluff is just what he thinks he's done, while he is actually a prisoner the gods occasionally let into realspace for their own amusement.'

Yeah, more or less this. It is an attempt to square Draigo's over the top fluff with the grimdarkness of the 40k universe.

DK wrote:For the Record, it has been stated in multiple locations, i.e. books, codexes and bios that no Grey Knight has ever fallen to the Warp in anyway. Regardless of his past he still is the Grand Master and is incorruptible.

How is he the Grand Master anyway? Isn't an election or something required?

Durza wrote:

DK wrote:For the Record, it has been stated in multiple locations, i.e. books, codexes and bios that no Grey Knight has ever fallen to the Warp in anyway. Regardless of his past he still is the Grand Master and is incorruptible.

How is he the Grand Master anyway? Isn't an election or something required?

I suspect he's more like Grand Master Emeritus. Given his current location, it's not like he can really have anything to do with the daily running of the chapter.

Durza wrote:

DK wrote:For the Record, it has been stated in multiple locations, i.e. books, codexes and bios that no Grey Knight has ever fallen to the Warp in anyway. Regardless of his past he still is the Grand Master and is incorruptible.

How is he the Grand Master anyway? Isn't an election or something required?

Don’t quote me on this but I think, without looking, it’s the most senior person as they rise through the ranks. It’s like any Chapter master, the GK just call it the Supreme Grand Master due to their specialty art.

Ah. I thought that Grand Masters elected one or something.

Durza wrote:Ah. I thought that Grand Masters elected one or something.

From Lexicanum

Supreme Grand Master
The highest rank attainable by a Grey Knight. Also referred to as the Chapter Lord, the Supreme Grand Master has complete authority over the chapter. However, a Grey Knight can only be appointed as the Supreme Grand Master with the unanimous consent of every other Grand Master, thus ensuring that an unsuitable candidate does not attain dominion over the chapter.
.

Correct. Each and every other Grand Master must unanimously vote for which of their number is to rise to become the new Grand Master. So basically, the other seven Grand Masters were present at the battle with Mortarion.

so if drago were a demon would the other GK have to hunt him?

Only if he was evil. Saints are daemons, and the Grey Knights don't seem too eager to kill them.

Actually, this relates to an interesting segment in page 6 of the WH Codex about Living Saints. Within it mentions how member of the Ordo Malleus treat Living Saints with suspicion, believing they're warp entities looking to dominate certain fractions within the Imperium. Then there's the recent interest in the Sanguuinor too, which stretches along similar subject matter.

Kanluwen wrote:Malal is dead, and will not be mentioned in 40k again.

Malice however will be.

Can you expand on this for me? What are you refering to here? Clearly there's an interesting bit of fluff I'm missing out on here.

htj wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Malal is dead, and will not be mentioned in 40k again.

Malice however will be.

Can you expand on this for me? What are you refering to here? Clearly there's an interesting bit of fluff I'm missing out on here.

Not really. Malal was retconned because GW would've had to pay to use him. In the 4th edition Chaos codex, however, a renegade faction called the Sons of Malice appeared, and follow a remarkably similar role.

I know about the ignominious death of Malal. Is it just the Sons of Malice thing then?