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Some things I've been pondering. Just how good is Astartes healing? More specifically, could a space marine survive having his throat slashed open?

Also, how do concussions affect marines? Can you actually knock out a marine, how much damage would it do, how long would they stay out for?

A slashed throat would bleed out too fast even for a marine. If you can keep a marine stable long enough, they can heal from just about any wound, short of regenerating limbs and organs.

I can't think of an example of a marine getting his throat slit but I do know that their blood coagulates very quickly when compared to that of a normal human.

Mr Nobody wrote:A slashed throat would bleed out too fast even for a marine. If you can keep a marine stable long enough, they can heal from just about any wound, short of regenerating limbs and organs.

Depending on how deep it is, humans today can survive a slashed throat if they get medical attention in time. So technically, yes an Astartes should be able to survive that, but considering the combat situation they would be in for such an occurrence indicates that they would not receive medical attention quickly enough.

Hm. What other sorta damage could temporarily incapacitate a marine without outright killing him?

Marines have lost limbs in battle and still managed to function. Their blood coagulates very fast and they can also be helped by an Apothecary applying a foam like solutiuon that fills in open wounds. (See Purging of Kadillus.

Skits wrote:Some things I've been pondering. Just how good is Astartes healing? More specifically, could a space marine survive having his throat slashed open?

Dude, even Guiliman barely survived that and he was an freaking Primarch...

Also, how do concussions affect marines? Can you actually knock out a marine, how much damage would it do, how long would they stay out for?

Well, you can knock him out with a tank and shake him pretty bad. But he would be on his feet in like 2 seconds and tear out the tank.

Brother Coa wrote:

Skits wrote:Some things I've been pondering. Just how good is Astartes healing? More specifically, could a space marine survive having his throat slashed open?

Dude, even Guiliman barely survived that and he was an freaking Primarch...

Also, how do concussions affect marines? Can you actually knock out a marine, how much damage would it do, how long would they stay out for?

Well, you can knock him out with a tank and shake him pretty bad. But he would be on his feet in like 2 seconds and tear out the tank.

It wasn't the slashed throat that did Guilliman in (not that it helped of course), it was the poison on the blade that put him in his current state.

Problem with getting your throat cut is that it really cuts down on the amount of blood getting to the brain. Cuts it down to about zero in fact. Even if you don't bleed out, that still puts a crimp in the lifestyle.

Something like a tazer would knock a marine down, though probably not for very long. And if we can tranq elephants, there's probably no reason you couldn't do the same to a marine, though you'd need stronger drugs and more of them.

You would have to pretty much remove a Marine's throat in order for him to bleed out from that injury. Their blood really does clot that fast.

A serious spinal injury would keep a marine from moving, but he could probably be healed after the battle. Losing limbs is also a problem but there's bionic replacements or possibly vat-grown clone replacements depending on the Chapter Apothecarion's equipment and skills.

And do recall that being removed as a casualty doesn't necessarily mean the model died or even took serious injury - maybe the marine lost his weaponry or had his power armor black out totally. An assault marine might have had a jump pack failure and shot out of control off the battlefield, a biker might hit a tree or sink beneath water where it takes time to get back out...

The throat is basically an Astartes weakest point. Battle for the Abyss is bascially non-stop throat goughing.

Skits wrote:Hm. What other sorta damage could temporarily incapacitate a marine without outright killing him?

Lots of Thermite. Won't kill him but try to move an armour covered in metal.

Spetulhu wrote:A serious spinal injury would keep a marine from moving, but he could probably be healed after the battle. Losing limbs is also a problem but there's bionic replacements or possibly vat-grown clone replacements depending on the Chapter Apothecarion's equipment and skills.

And do recall that being removed as a casualty doesn't necessarily mean the model died or even took serious injury - maybe the marine lost his weaponry or had his power armor black out totally. An assault marine might have had a jump pack failure and shot out of control off the battlefield, a biker might hit a tree or sink beneath water where it takes time to get back out...

Yeah, that is one thing people seem to forget.
All the states, casualties, and what-not, do not always mean what people think.
In the case of casualties, a model that is removed as one does not mean that it is actually dead.
So it is a good way to keep IC's alive, even though they were removed as a casualty

A poison has to move very fast to overwhelm an Astartes. The implants they receive increase clotting time to near instantaneous for light cuts as well as slowly closing things that would outright kill normal human. they also have an implant that sends them into a healing coma if the damage is too much to work with and several implants that filter and treat poison.

You have a significantly easier time going after their wargear. Remember, Power Armor only stays "Power" armor if it has an energy source, you remove/destroy their backpack and it starts to hamper their movement. When the armor is disabled, it goes from being a second skin to being a pile of dense, heavy metal covering their whole body. Make no mistake, an astartes is still dangerous, just not as mobile. If you can make the armor lock up though, you have a live marine completely unharmed.

He could still move, mind you, he'd just be rather laughable.

Oh yeah, I know that models removed as casualties from the board aren't necessarily actually dead. XD I'm just trying to figure out how much damage I need/can get away with to take out a guy in terminator armour without outright killing the bugger. XD Basically aiming to capture, not kill.

Never thought about the power source for the armour though. Hmmm. Where is the power pack in terminator armour?

In the novel "Brothers of the Snake", one marine takes a bounding bullet to the eye and it basically destroys half of his face/eye. He lives. They are incredibly tough.

Not only that but it is demonstrated in the book that Priad even has means of stopping up a wound with an emergency kit kept in the thigh section of his power armor.

Power armor itself can dispense meds and pain killers to the marine in the midst of battle if it sense that it is necessary to do so

Generally their healing is of the "as long as its not amputated off the body, it will heal". Broken/shattered limbs, various source of cuts/wounds, bleeding, bruishes, and all of that nature will eventually heal. Bleeding usually is the first to stop due to the larraman cells, and it generally happens pretty fast (Barring certain extraordinary circumstnaces) but the actual healing rate for various things can vary from chapter to chapter, author to author, and the kind and extent of injuries (Like most things, there's a limit to what the healing can do, and if a space marine is really badly hurt their healing may not be able to help in time or may suffer degradation. Which is why they can go into suspended animation as I recall.)

Edit: as far as a slashed throat, I suppose it depends on how deeply the Marine is cut and his current condition. I'm pretty sure there's an example in a novel where a marine has had his throat slashed and survived, but I can't remember one offhand.

Back in RT, it was a combination of haywire grenades and tanglefoot grenades.

Disabled power armour and caused the now unpowered armour to stumble about like a drunken bum.

So you could hit them with your slow stuff.

Tau have icefire warheads (like haywire or EMP but stronger pulse) that should be able to knock out a SM suit.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:The throat is basically an Astartes weakest point. Battle for the Abyss is bascially non-stop throat goughing.

The throat oddly is one of the biggest and weaknesses of the Astartes. The armour most people see is that of the mark 7 Aquila armour. However its design was improved upon to counter the weakness of the throat in the mark 8 errant armour which the only difference was a guard to protect the marines neck.

That said, slitting a marines throat will probably put him out of the fight, but it might not kill him. The clotting of the blood happens very fast as has been noted, but with the damage to blood-flow to the brain, they would probably just enter an emergency coma like state. If I remember their armour also has medical systems that assist in preventing bleeding out in situations like loosing a limb.

Cool cool. This is interesting stuff.

With the throat slitting and the whole blood loss deal, would the windpipe being cut and possibly cutting off air supply even be a concern? What effect would a strike that crushes the windpipe but doesn't actually cut the throat have? Three lungs is great, but as far as I know the throat's still the only way to get air to said lungs.

What about concussions? Is it possible to knock out a marine for a while with a good hard strike (or several) to the head? Especially if said marine doesn't have a helmet on at the time.

Shoot a Terminator in the power pack and the battle is over. That armor is to heavy to lift without the servos.

gabrielhorus wrote:Shoot a Terminator in the power pack and the battle is over. That armor is to heavy to lift without the servos.

Pretty sure if you are able to penetrate the armor around the power pack you are going to go right through to the marine. Not saying it couldn't be done with a precision strike, but I don't think it is a 'weak point' per se. It is probably one of the toughest parts of the armor. You typically want to keep fusion reactors safe and contained.

BrainDeleted wrote:Power armor itself can dispense meds and pain killers to the marine in the midst of battle if it sense that it is necessary to do so

Yes, shortly after the portion in the book that details Priad helping Illyus with the skin sealant, it goes on to detail Priad's own injury to his leg and how the suit combats the pain he would normally feel.

Skits wrote:Cool cool. This is interesting stuff.

With the throat slitting and the whole blood loss deal, would the windpipe being cut and possibly cutting off air supply even be a concern? What effect would a strike that crushes the windpipe but doesn't actually cut the throat have? Three lungs is great, but as far as I know the throat's still the only way to get air to said lungs.

What about concussions? Is it possible to knock out a marine for a while with a good hard strike (or several) to the head? Especially if said marine doesn't have a helmet on at the time.

Well as long as you don't get much fluid into the lungs, they should breath fine even through a hole in the throat. Please, note that when people have their throats slit they die from one of two options, bleeding out, and drowning in their own blood. If the blood flow can be stemmed with the clotting ability of the marines blood, a simple emergency tracheotomy will get his lungs air again. (emergency tracheotomy: cut knife wound into wind pipe, insert small tube.)

I don't recall seeing anything in their gene seeds that would prevent a space marine from suffering a concussion. Their brains are relatively normal human brains for the most part. (some small changes but nothing to prevent going unconscious.) It should be quite possible.

I may be wrong but wouldn't the marines third lung bypass the issue of drowning on their own blood?