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I have an Issue with Forge World Delivery Prices, this will be a long detailed post so bear with me. I am interested in other peoples opinions on this. 1st off, a clear declaration of Forge Worlds product Delivery costs and pricing (Taken directly from their Website).

PRICE OF GOODS

All our prices are displayed with our products throughout the website.

The price of our goods is exactly the same as the recommended retail price and our mail order service.

All prices are in UK pounds (GBP £), and are inclusive of VAT.

We will charge your credit card in UK pounds (GBP £).

If you live outside the UK we recommend you check with your credit card company regarding any charges you may incur for currency conversion.

We will display the full price of your order (including shipping and handling) BEFORE you submit your order to us.

SHIPPING AND HANDLING

Forge World charge an additional 12% of the order value for shipping and handling to the UK or 15% to anywhere in the World. We can also offer an Express Delivery option with a shipping time of 2-5 working days from dispatch to anywhere in the world. If you are interested in taking advantage of this service please tell us when you place your order, or choose the option from our online store. Forge World Express Delivery is £12 within the UK or £15 to anywhere in the World in addition to your normal shipping costs for each order independent of the number of products ordered.

Orders of £250.00 or more have no shipping charges and are shipped using UPS Express Delivery.

The total cost of your order is previewed for you before you commit to your purchase.

UPS shipping : Orders shipped via UPS delivery cannot be sent to a PO, APO or BFPO addresses. If you have any queries please contact us directly

Okay, my issue with this is the 12% figure. Taking this to extremes lets take an Order worth £240 e.g Not entitled to Free postage due it being sub £250.

12% of £240 = £28.80 Postage and packaging.

UK POST OFFICE COSTS (ROYAL MAIL)

Our Special Delivery™ Next Day service starts at just £5.45 and you can send items up to 10kg. See our detailed price list below.

Use Special Delivery™ and get up to £500 automatic compensation cover for loss or damage. If your item is more valuable, you can get extra cover up to £2,500 for a small additional fee.
Price list

http://www.postoffice.co.uk/letters-parcels/sending-uk-letters-parcels/special-delivery/special-delivery-next-day-prices

*Franking accounts are held usually by businesses allowing them to stamp their own postage items with their account number and so are charged directly at the depot. This is useful for companies with large volumes of mail/ that offer postal services hence the slight discount. It is not available to the public, unless they have specific need (e.g. an Ebay Seller who shifts a large volume!).

So far so good.

Working this calculation through.

1.5kg Package from FW worth £240 pounds. Now I would suggest that FW has a franking account but for simplicity I will use the public mail system of stamps.

so it will be 2Kg at £9.05 (for next day delivery not bad, and it's insured upto £500 great so the item is covered).

I have no idea how much packaging costs are but lets say (lets be generous) they need a £5 for a box and some packaging , okay.

Now they need someone in the warehouse, to grab the items and box the package, add the label and complete the order. Let's say that they are on UK minimum wage £6.10 ph. Right lets say he is slow and new (I am being generous) it takes 45 mins so lets call that £5 as well. Thus far that's £10 onto of the £9.05 cost of delivery.

Okay now the costs of miscellaneous bits, Warehouse, lighting, heating etc, security, paying for site, insurance. Okay lets call that a further £5.... but Hold on, isn't that a overhead? Shouldn't that be covered in the Product cost + a healthy profit margin (10% - 30% Profit margin).

So hold on, my order should cost (conservatively) £19.05, lets call it £20. The Charge is £28.80, thats a further £8.80 over my fairly liberal costings.

OKAY, it's expensive. How can I reduce my costs....

Order through a third party like Wayland Games......No they don't do trade accounts.

Right well certain companies in the UK, allow you to order from their Online store Like NEXT or TESCO. You pay online and it is delivered to your local Retail Store, and you can go in and pick it up bingo, no postage, a nice way to save some money of postage and another way of getting people in to your store.

Great, well GW & FW are joined at the hip. They share the same facilities and factory space, GW share IP with FW and they advertise their items in WD and on their website. Surely they could share the massive (& expensive retail operation GW runs). I pop in and low and behold, no. They don't allow FW products to be delivered to GW Retail arm, saving us at the sharp end from the cost of Shipping....

I am not happy with this and I am wondering whether FW are using their P&P to prop up their Overheads e.g. they make a profit on P&P and therefore to keep the costs of products looking cheaper and more attractive, they don't allow third parties because they are making a significant profit margin on the P&P.

The product cost, should include all overheads + a Profit margin. If they are using P&P to make an even greater margin this is a shameless profiteering. It would explain the why they don't allow anyone else to sell their products? Or allow any other method of delivery other than direct sale from the factory. I might have got this completely wrong, but I am fairly convinced they are protecting themselves in a closed market because their business model will not work in an Open market.

As ever your thoughts Dakka?

I have no problem with them making money and it is highly specialised customer base so the cost will always be higher than a mass market product. I hate profiteering off the back of delivery of products, I have paid for the product, I am merely seeking an economical, safe and secure delivery with a degree of insurance.

To take advantage of that and give us no alternative methods is pretty reprehensible.

The other issue, is why FW cannot add their items, into the weekly deliveries to the GW retail stores, at even a moderate cost to ship. e.g. £5 to ship to your local GW store. It is a pretty shabby way to treat their customer base, without customers they go bust. With the economic downturn, they need to fight for customers and this is one of many ways they could do this!

My issue is really that there are no alternatives to paying an extortionate rate. I don't like the idea that if you pay more you get free postage, so what if i only want £120 of products?

Your arguments thus far are;-

1. get over yourself pay it
2. Club together and buy as group

My answer is no, to both points. I have a good job and a damn good credit rating, why would I risk that putting a big order on my Credit Card? Why should i act like a banker with my friends, and why would i expect my friends to do so for me? Money and debts within friendship groups should be avoided, it is a dangerous business if you wish to remain friends. I don't order things on ebay, and then say crap, if I get 3 friends to buy in i'll get free postage, the real world doesn't operate like that. I take responsibility for myself and my debts, I do not club together with others because at my local club I have seen fall outs about damaged goods, and who is responsible (one broken Contemptor, one intact Contemptor) they both fought for the intact one, and the third member who paid for the order had to return it because it was on his card. He then gave the intact one to one man, and the other had to wait, my god the fall out was stupid. Arse Ache I can do without, if i want arse ache I go see the mother in law.

On the subject of overheads, the company should be factoring in Postage because thats the only way to buy the stuff. So it's quantifiable, you can average it out and it can be taken into account as a overhead (just like every other business that offers Free delivery etc). The idea of travelling to Games day to buy my FW is frankly nonsense and more bloody expensive.

If I am paying for high end goods i expect more for my money. My new Samsung TV was £300, free delivery. My £50 order on firestorm Games, free delivery. MY new washing machine £450, including free delivery and installation. My Sky Plus, £40 a month, free box and installation.

I cannot accept that FW is not part of GW, it bloody well is, it might be a franchise, it might be a daughter operation, it might be a third party developer.. It is on the same site, in the same factory using GW IP and advertising on GW material. For FW to refuse to use GW Retail arm is ridiculous. They are about as seperate as Siamese Twins. That is the real issue, WTF can they not sell through the retail arm of GW? Its protectionism...

jbunny wrote:

mwnciboo wrote:My issue is really that there are no alternatives to paying an extortionate rate. I don't like the idea that if you pay more you get free postage, so what if i only want £120 of products?

Your arguments thus far are;-

1. get over yourself pay it
2. Club together and buy as group

My answer is no, to both points. I have a good job and a damn good credit rating, why would I risk that putting a big order on my Credit Card? Why should i act like a banker with my friends, and why would i expect my friends to do so for me? Money and debts within friendship groups should be avoided, it is a dangerous business if you wish to remain friends. I don't order things on ebay, and then say crap, if I get 3 friends to buy in i'll get free postage, the real world doesn't operate like that. I take responsibility for myself and my debts, I do not club together with others because at my local club I have seen fall outs about damaged goods, and who is responsible (one broken Contemptor, one intact Contemptor) they both fought for the intact one, and the third member who paid for the order had to return it because it was on his card. He then gave the intact one to one man, and the other had to wait, my god the fall out was stupid. Arse Ache I can do without, if i want arse ache I go see the mother in law.

On the subject of overheads, the company should be factoring in Postage because thats the only way to buy the stuff. So it's quantifiable, you can average it out and it can be taken into account as a overhead (just like every other business that offers Free delivery etc). The idea of travelling to Games day to buy my FW is frankly nonsense and more bloody expensive.

If I am paying for high end goods i expect more for my money. My new Samsung TV was £300, free delivery. My £50 order on firestorm Games, free delivery. MY new washing machine £450, including free delivery and installation. My Sky Plus, £40 a month, free box and installation.

I cannot accept that FW is not part of GW, it bloody well is, it might be a franchise, it might be a daughter operation, it might be a third party developer.. It is on the same site, in the same factory using GW IP and advertising on GW material. For FW to refuse to use GW Retail arm is ridiculous. They are about as seperate as Siamese Twins. That is the real issue, WTF can they not sell through the retail arm of GW? Its protectionism...

Are you smoking crack?

I mean really. Risking your credit because you made a larger purchase??? You just save your money until you have enough for a larger order. No one said go and borrow money to get a larger order. As for friends, sounds like your friends are a bunch of spoiled children. Comparing PLANNING a forge World order and buying from ebay, and then after the fact getting friends to buy something is so different I don't think I really need to address it.

FW is a subsidiary of GW. That means the profits from FW roll up to GW. It does not mean they are the same company. In fact a lot of subsidiary companies are run completely separate and with different marketing strategies.

People fall out of money all the time. It is one of the number one reasons why friends fall out. I like my friends and I like them for who they are, I don't like souring relationships but I have seen many, many problems with clubbing together. For example, people not paying upfront, or promptly, you foot the bill on the credit card, oh and if they don't you end up paying the interest on their debt. This is both unfair and unjust, you never draw up a contract so it is a verbal agreement. If it goes wrong, what are you going to do? Pursue them through the courts, well if it's thousands fair enough, a hundred or so well it will cost?

Your credit rating is pretty important, the prompt servicing of debt is not only a personal mantra for me, but is also an integrity issue. You can affect your credit rating in many ways (changing bank accounts for example), non servicing and disputing of debt.

I agree with subsidary Companies are run completely seperate with different marketing strategies. But your definition of Completely Seperate is very liberal, they are on the same GW site, in the same factory. They provide free shipping to GW employees, I am happy to pay and collect, I think this is a reasonable and cheaper alternative then the current P&P.

On a Personal note, I don't like your insinuation that I am smoking crack. Consider you words more carefully.

d-usa wrote:If any company offers free shipping across the board....they really aren't.

Trust me, they did not wake up one day and decide "we should no longer charge $10 to deliver something, we should just eat that cost".

They just realized that nobody likes seeing $10 S&H on a bill, but they are okay with paying an extra $1-$2 on every single item they are buying.

I am surprised that people are throwing a fit about this bill:

Item 1 - $10
Item 2 - $10
Item 3 - $10
Item 4 - $10
Item 5 - $10
S&H - $10

But at the same time would not say a word if the bill was

Item 1 - $12
Item 2 - $12
Item 3 - $12
Item 4 - $12
Item 5 - $12
S&H - FREE!!!!!!!!!

Trust me, nobody has free shipping, they just bury the cost somewhere else.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

mwnciboo wrote: of the number one reasons why friends fall out. I like my friends and I like them for who they are, I don't like souring relationships but I have seen many, many problems with clubbing together. For example, people not paying upfront, or promptly, you foot the bill on the credit card, oh and if they don't you end up paying the interest on their debt. This is both unfair and unjust, you never draw up a contract so it is a verbal agreement. If it goes wrong, what are you going to do? Pursue them through the courts, well if it's thousands fair enough, a hundred or so well it will cost?

1) Not sure about the UK, but I know that in the US as well as in Germany you can use Debit Cards that take the money out of your account. So on the day you take the order, collect all the money, put it in the account, whip out the Debit Card, pay FW, print out the itemized bill and hand it out to your friends. Forgeworld does not ship and ask you to pay later, and neither should you.

2) I don't mean this in a mean way, but Warhammer is a hobby. If you are having to use a Credit Card to pay for it, then you may need to step back and evaluate if it is worth it. Again, not saying this in a mean way. But I have seen people get addicted to a hobby and go bankrupt over it. I always pay cash for anything I buy, if I can't afford it right now, then I don't need it.

You are correct with your assertion for costs of shipping being absorbed. This is an overhead that can incorporated into the product price, thousands of companies do this.

On the DEBIT CARDS yes you can pay in the UK on a debit card. A massive issue with this is that the online purchase is not insured. My Barclaycard, offers free insurance on all internet purchases. So if i get ripped off, or the item never arrives, one quick phone call and the item is refund against the insurance. This is not the case for DEBIT cards, and is the priciple reason why i use a CC. I also get Airmiles and £1 back for every £100 I spend. I usually clear the card monthly (unless I have an exceptional purchase e.g. Car) and many cards offer 0% balance transfers or 0% on the lifetime of your balance. This is great if you have a AAA Credit rating as you can buy a Car outright on your credit card, transfer it on another card e.g. £10000 with 0% on lifetime of balance. You can then pay it off (£1000 pcm) and you have a car bought outright, you own it debt paid after 10months, and you've paid 0% interest and you also got back £100, and 10,000 Airmiles. It also allows you a bargining tool at the Car dealership e.g I'll take that car in black, with all the extras, for £2000 less than the list price, if you give me that I will complete the sale now with my CC. A damn good bar ginning tool.

I don't use a CC because i have no money, it's actually the exact opposite. I find CC convient and has benefits, I wouldn't recommend a CC for anyone who has a low income. If you are a Professional with a decent income, and job security, then debt is fine. Infact debt is healthy, without debt or more accurately credit, no businesses would flourish. The problem in recent times is that Credit has been far to easy for those who could not afford it.

You can play it very smart with modern finance, because they always want customers with good credit ratings. See this website if you are in the UK and want to maximise your money (e.g. more money for models ).

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/savings/savings-accounts-best-interest?gclid=CNqZhpnvvawCFc8Z4Qod61mDCQ

Back OT, maybe it is worth me writing a polite and considered letter to the Company (FW) to ask if they would ever consider ordering and delivering through the GW retail arm?

Scipio Africanus wrote:why is this all in bold? It makes in incredibly hard for me to read.

not sure where you are coming from? Have you got google Chrome and got it zoomed in slightly?

Their packaging is no better than any other good internet retailer out there.