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Farseer, Placed on Board DoW deployment.
Turn 1, Farseer casts fortune.
Turn 1, Warlocks turbo boost on table.
Turn 1, Farseer joins warlocks.

1) Does farseer get cover save, because 50% of the unit is obscured?
2) Does farseer give warlocks fortune, because they are now the same unit?

1) No. Note the diffference between CHOICE and UNIT. Choice is ok - except DoW cares about Unit. So no, you may not place an HQ unit down and another HQ unit down

2) No, the act of casting powers prevents you from turboboosting, as you may not perform any other voluntary action the turn you turboboost. Casting psychic powers is a voluntary action

Also - you do know what "voluntary" means, right? Did you CHOOSE to cast fortune? Yes? Then it is a VOLUNTARY action.

nosferatu1001 wrote:1) No. Note the diffference between CHOICE and UNIT. Choice is ok - except DoW cares about Unit. So no, you may not place an HQ unit down and another HQ unit down

2) No, the act of casting powers prevents you from turboboosting, as you may not perform any other voluntary action the turn you turboboost. Casting psychic powers is a voluntary action

Also - you do know what "voluntary" means, right? Did you CHOOSE to cast fortune? Yes? Then it is a VOLUNTARY action.

Its pretty obvious that you didnt read my explanations, because you didnt adress them at all.

If the Farseer and the Warlocks are not 1 unit, then they couldnt be fortuned together.

And you didnt prove that Psychic powers were Voluntary actions, you meerly said they were based on your own opinion.

Smitty0305 wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:1) No. Note the diffference between CHOICE and UNIT. Choice is ok - except DoW cares about Unit. So no, you may not place an HQ unit down and another HQ unit down

2) No, the act of casting powers prevents you from turboboosting, as you may not perform any other voluntary action the turn you turboboost. Casting psychic powers is a voluntary action

Also - you do know what "voluntary" means, right? Did you CHOOSE to cast fortune? Yes? Then it is a VOLUNTARY action.

Its pretty obvious that you didnt read my explanations, because you didnt adress them at all.

If the Farseer and the Warlocks are not 1 unit, then they couldnt be fortuned together.

And you didnt prove that Psychic powers were Voluntary actions, you meerly said they were based on your own opinion.

Does anyone force you to use fortune? No? Then it's voluntary.

And yes, you can fortune a Seer Council because they ARE one unit, but not when you buy them from the Army List, which is what matters for Dawn of War deployment.

Almightywalrus is right. just like a squad and its transport count as two units for dow deployment but take up one force org slot so does a farseer and the warlocks. The warlocks are not a retinue and are a seperate unit.

Smitty - its pretty obvious that you dont understand basic English then.

DId you choose to cast Fortune? Yes. Now, what does "voluntary" mean again?

I've proven it is a voluntary action, prove it isnt. Prove you are FORCED to cast fortune. LIne and page please

To your first one - they are 2 units for DoW purposes, but one choice. Choice /= Unit. Try again.

Oddly enough neither question is new, if youd bothered to search you would have seen this.

bagtagger wrote:Almightywalrus is right. just like a squad and its transport count as two units for dow deployment but take up one force org slot so does a farseer and the warlocks. The warlocks are not a retinue and are a seperate unit.

Except for the fact that you cant fortune a tank and a squad, but you can fortune a farseer and a warlock. And based on the Fortune rule, they are the same unit.


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nosferatu1001 wrote:Smitty - its pretty obvious that you dont understand basic English then.

DId you choose to cast Fortune? Yes. Now, what does "voluntary" mean again?

I've proven it is a voluntary action, prove it isnt. Prove you are FORCED to cast fortune. LIne and page please

To your first one - they are 2 units for DoW purposes, but one choice. Choice /= Unit. Try again.

Oddly enough neither question is new, if youd bothered to search you would have seen this.

A Reflex isnt a voluntary action, Why cant casting fortune be a reflex lol?

Because you do not HAVE to cast it.

The two units are separate HQ units when you place them on the table. You place the jetlocks - thats your HQ unit that you are allowed. You then place the Seer - instantly you have placed 2. Not allowed.

Smitty0305 wrote:In Order for me to not be allowed to cast fortune, The rulebook would need to take precedence over my codex, which it does not.

Minor nitpick here. People commonly say codex takes precedence over rulebook but its not actually correct. Specific takes precedence over general (which most of the time means codex overrides rulebook, but not always).

You definitely can't cast Fortune (or any other psychic power) if you Turbo-boost. It's a voluntary action, which you can't do when turboboosting. I agree, the order of operations is a little wacky, but you need to plan ahead.

As for the DoW deployment, I think this is actually trickier than I thought. It's not just an Eldar issue, but it effects just about every army. You're saying that the restriction to have "one unit from his HQ selections" is applied AFTER joining ICs to units. I've never interpreted it that way, but I can't come up with a solid rules issue as to why not. But, that allows every army to field its HQ choices joined together. For example, a SM force could field an Honor Guard with 2 Chapter Masters.

Again, I don't believe that's how it's played, but this FAQ seems to favor your interpretation:
Q: If an Independent Character is going to begin a
game joined to a unit when should this be done? (p48)
A: You should nominate which Independent Characters
are joining units at the start of deployment before you
place any units on the board. Note that this should be
done before you nominate which units are being held
in Reserve, Deep Strike or are Outflanking etc.

So, by the time you place the unit (being Warlocks+Farseer) on the board, it's already a single unit.

I think the OP is widely off the mark with the second point. An action is voluntary if you have the option not to do it. You can choose not to cast fortune for a turn, and therefor it is voluntary. No amount of dodgy wordplay will change this.

The OP might have a point for the farseer + warlocks. We know that once on the table they form a unit. We also know that farseers are ICs. But can the seer council split from the farseer? I don't remember off the top of my head. If they can't, then wouldn't that mean they are a unit to start since they have to remain a unit all game? If the council can't seperate, then they couldn't be deployed without the farseer, which would mean that they are joined before deployment. All this is moot if the council can split from the farseer though.

Warlocks are NOT a retinue for the Farseer

Smitty0305 wrote:

bagtagger wrote:Almightywalrus is right. just like a squad and its transport count as two units for dow deployment but take up one force org slot so does a farseer and the warlocks. The warlocks are not a retinue and are a seperate unit.

Except for the fact that you cant fortune a tank and a squad, but you can fortune a farseer and a warlock. And based on the Fortune rule, they are the same unit.

The Farseer and the Seer Council is one unit, but they're not one unit when you buy them in the Army List. As such, you can't deploy them together during Dawn of War. A tank is not part of the unit, an IC temporarily is.

Farseer is placed 18" on the board in DoW deployment.

Turn one the farseer casts fortune on himself.
Turn one warlocks turbo boost 18", and becuase they are within 2" they automatically join the farseer.

Does this work?

Units don't join characters; Characters move to within 2" of a unit.

pretre wrote:Units don't join characters; Characters move to within 2" of a unit.

It doesnt matter what happens , as long as in the movement phase the models move within 2" from eachother.

P48 disagrees.

Technically, the IC has to move within 2" to join, in this case, Jetseer casts Fortune on self, Jetlocks Turboboost on ending within 2" of the Jetseer. Jetseer moves .00000000000000...01" ending his turn within 2" of the Jetlocks, and then joins the unit. Problem solved.

I wouldn't allow it, since the Jetseer has committed a voluntary action and the Turboboosting unit cannot commit any voluntary actions. So he would have to stay out of 2".

Ah, however, the Jetseer is NOT Turboboosting. Once he joined he would not be able to do anything else however.


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It would be the same as joing a unit that has gone to ground.

I changed my mind. I would allow him to join, but would deny the cover save for the unit, since he then makes the unit ineligible for the save.

pretre wrote:I changed my mind. I would allow him to join, but would deny the cover save for the unit, since he then makes the unit ineligible for the save.

Fair enough. (Just remember, the unit all has a 4+ invulnerable, so it doesn't really matter )

3+ rerollable vs 4+ rerollable is a big deal, but yeah, not that big a deal.

Dont cover saves apply if magority of the unit is obscured? And because 50% of the unit turbo boosted the entire unit would get cover?

I want better written rules this s getting stupid.

pretre wrote:I changed my mind. I would allow him to join, but would deny the cover save for the unit, since he then makes the unit ineligible for the save.

RAW, the unit has a 3+ Cover save, due to more than 50% of the models Turboboosting and being granted a cover save. However, I would play it the same way as you.

Smitty0305 wrote:Farseer is placed 18" on the board in DoW deployment.

Turn one the farseer casts fortune on himself.
Turn one warlocks turbo boost 18", and becuase they are within 2" they automatically join the farseer.

Does this work?

This then brings up the issue can the power used by the Farseer solely on himself also affect the unit he later joins, Fortune in this example.

Even if the Farseer moves to within 2" of the Warlocks, the only unit the Farseer cast Fortune was himself, so why would the Warlocks benefit from the power.

I'd allow the Farseer to join the Warlocks but Fortune is limited to just the Farseer.

As for the OP regarding what is and isn't voluntary, if you don't have to do it, it's voluntary if you do it. The Farseer doesn't have to use a power, doing so is voluntary. You need to concede this point as you have absolutely nothing to support your claim.

pretre wrote:3+ rerollable vs 4+ rerollable is a big deal, but yeah, not that big a deal.

Ah, I forgot that turbo-boost gives a 3+ save. Shows how often I run bikes.

And even then, they have a 3+ armor save from the bikes.

Wow, 27 responses and not any of them actually anwer your questions.

Smitty0305 wrote:Farseer, Placed on Board DoW deployment.
Turn 1, Farseer casts fortune on himself.
Turn 1, Warlocks turbo boost on table from off the table.
Turn 1, Farseer moves and joins warlocks.

1) Does farseer get cover save, because 50% of the unit is obscured?
2) Does farseer give warlocks fortune, because they are now the same unit?

Answers
1) The whole unit has to move over 18 inches to get the cover save (in turbo-boosters USR). Having one model in the unit moving less than 18" disqualifies the unit from the coversave, so no.

2) The farseer fortuned himself at the beginning of the turn, so the unit "farseer" may re-roll saves. However, after he moves to join the Warlocks, he is now part of the unit "Warlocks" and fortune no longer applies.

Sorry, I have yet to find out a way to be able to fortune my warlocks first turn on Dawn of War.

Pretty sure your 2) is wrong. As if farseer is solo he's a unit, and if he joins a unit it is still a unit. Except in CC of course.