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Dune and the couple subsequent books were beyond fantastic as well as all the prequels written by his son. I feel that the books pushed into ridiculousness when the fishspeakers (I think thats the name, its been forever) and other bizarre additions appeared. The house books and the butlerian jihad/machine books were amazing. I think the fact that herbert created a living breathing world with a completely unique and amazing economy and system of government as well as wrote enough notes on his created universe that his son was able to write like 10 or some ridiculous amount of books is amazing. He also didnt contradict himself at every turn and create a world of testosterone fueled supersoldiers who fight eachother. In the grim dark future of 40k, there is only war. In the universe of dune, there is a living, breathing existence.

I will never care what brother captain generic roman name said or did. I will never take the slightest bit of interest in why everything in WH40K feels the need to kill everything else. I will never get why with their awesome weapons they dont just crack planets instead of landing on them and engaging in "epic battle". Something that will stick with me for the rest of my life however are the characters in dune. Specifically the relationship between serena butler and erasmus (I once again believe those are the names). There is no deeper connection to WH fluff because thats just what it is, fluff.

Tadashi wrote:Read it once, got bored, never tried to follow the story past the first book. On the other hand, 40k...glorious battle...

You cant compare the two then. The series goes forwards but also 6 books backwards. There is an obscene amount of things you have no idea about. It would be like me reading an ork codex and saying "everything in 40k is dumb, Im not interested anymore". You know such a tiny amount of what exists in the universe of dune.

You've never read about the cymeks killing and enslaving billions of people, only to be enslaved themselves. You dont know that vorian atredies is the son of a cymek titan. You dont know the reasoning behind almost every aspect of the dune books. There is no glorious battle in dune because it is realistic. Loved ones and friends can be killed and taken. There is no space marines. The humans are real and they do very real things and make very real, hard decisions. Maybe its because I'm in the navy but glorifying death in battle is kind of a sick thing to do. Nobody wants to watch a friend die.

This thread has prompted me to go look through my enormous library for all these books and read them again.

Omnius and the cymeks made an RNA retrovirus that immediately killed 45% of the human population in existence and would have eventually mopped up the rest of them had spice not been found to reverse its effects. It would seem the 40k universe has no spice. I think people are forgetting there are many different armies at many different times that exist in the dune universe. I would say that the omnius/cymek armies could clean up most of the 40k armies through intelligence that only a machine could have. Necrons dont count.

Ronin wrote:

rabidaskal wrote:I mean we were all younger once and we know how perspectives change. I mean back in the day I honestly believed Drizzt and David Eddings were the most amazing fantasy stories ever told.

You are right. We were all young once,

I read the full series from beginning to end at the age of 11. Age is not an excuse Odd question, has anyone read the belgariad series?

Yes, I have read it, not terrible but not that great. Good reading for a rainy weekend.

Have you read the mallorean as well? Same characters and a continuation of the story. Thats my favorite series. Probably because I read them as a kid.

Anybody watch the 6 hr miniseries? It wasn't too bad.

I was just explaining navigators to my girlfriend.

Tadashi wrote:Alright alright I get it! As a series Dune is better. And neither of them are realistic. But I like 40k better because, well, it's more interesting. Which is more interesting, political intrigue in universe where Humans are already dominant, or intrigue and action where Mankind's existence is at stake and the fate of the galaxy is the prize?


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iproxtaco wrote:Meh, didn't like Dune, I prefer 40k a lot more. Just seems a lot more interesting.

Agreed...

Humans are not dominant all the way through the series. They are dominated and enslaved by machines for some. Mankinds existence is at stake and they lose billions of lives destroying the machines. There are planets at stake and lives at stake. You must be a troll because there is no intrigue in 40k. "Brother captain roman name fights aliens and they kill eachother" 100 years later "Captain other roman name fights more aliens" etc... Thats a full codex for you.

Tadashi wrote:

Hox wrote:

Tadashi wrote:Alright alright I get it! As a series Dune is better. And neither of them are realistic. But I like 40k better because, well, it's more interesting. Which is more interesting, political intrigue in universe where Humans are already dominant, or intrigue and action where Mankind's existence is at stake and the fate of the galaxy is the prize?


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iproxtaco wrote:Meh, didn't like Dune, I prefer 40k a lot more. Just seems a lot more interesting.

Agreed...

Humans are not dominant all the way through the series. They are dominated and enslaved by machines for some. Mankinds existence is at stake and they lose billions of lives destroying the machines. There are planets at stake and lives at stake. You must be a troll because there is no intrigue in 40k. "Brother captain roman name fights aliens and they kill eachother" 100 years later "Captain other roman name fights more aliens" etc... Thats a full codex for you.

Ever read Inquisition-based stories? I'm pretty sure there's a lot of intrigue there...

I have. They make me want to off myself. I read one with the preheresy raptor nightlord guy. One half of the story was his and one was a girl from the inquisition. Her parts were so bad I literally could not read them and skipped to his over and over. There is a general lack of writing talent in the 40k books. To be completely honest your comparing a half assed collection of random stories from a universe that is modified monthly to one of the best pieces of sci-fi writing in existence. It isn't a fair comparison in the slightest.

Tadashi wrote:Perhaps not. But 40k is still more fun and interesting than Dune.

Once again dune is one of the most famous sci fi series in existence.

"Since its debut in 1965, Frank Herbert's Dune has sold over 12 million copies worldwide, making it the best-selling science fiction novel of all time ... Frank Herbert's Dune saga is one of the greatest 20th Century contributions to literature."

Theres something fun pulled off its wiki. Now stop comparing it to random books by authors nobodies ever heard of.

Tadashi wrote:Yes, it's a magnificent piece of literature, but 40k still excites greater interest...

In you perhaps, although there are people who expect much more from the things they read. Its most likely something to do with age. Some people read books for gore and violence, some read it because they enjoy to read. I am in the navy, to think of death as a wonderful glorious thing requires the mind of a child. Watching something die is not a fun thing to do, whether it is friend of enemy. Maybe if you were exposed to more in your life, violence and repeated plotlines would not be so interesting to you.

eviltrout wrote:I would say that there is no comparison because their just so different. Dune is about the growth and evolution of one man and his son to being the most powerful man in the universe. 40k is great because its always changing and the different authors add different perspectives, although there is some god awful writing out there. So they,re both great in there own way.

And on a completely different note Herberts son should stop writing books they,re getting really chessy.

I enjoyed the house books and the three on the thinking machines. Has he written anything else?

chromedog wrote:Frank Herbert only wrote up to Chapter House.
He died a while back.

Brian (his son) did the prequels and house books.

They aren't a patch on his dad's work.

I'm aware of that but the most recent brian herbert book I've read was in like 02' or something. The poster above me talked about something recent.

Dogface 76 wrote:From a 40k military vs. Dune military there is the complete lack of Ranged warfare in the Dune Universe....at least in practical terms....slug weapons, explosions, arrows, even quick strikes with a sword are stopped by the Holtzman Shields....Now lasguns can be used against shields but with catastrophic and mutually assured destruction.

This leads to extremely effective CC in the Dune Universe....Poisons, Para-Bindu training (Extremely quick Martial Arts) knives and garrottes--Soldiers in the Dune Universe are extremely specialized CC masters, from Ginaz swordman to Bene Gesserit witches, to Facedancer assasins

I am not sure when you start using Psy weapons, Lance...Gauss. Most Xeno weapons cannot be compared in any of the Dune books but we could just say Imperium of Man vs Dune Emperor.


Also the development of the Human Mind into areas that are not influenced by the warp. Guild Mathmatics, Tlieaxu Genetics (Face Dancers), Bene-Gesserit body/Mind control all are accomplished without computers and without delving into the warp...and its corresponding dangers.

The lynchpin weakness is that the Spice must flow for any of the Dune powers to work...and there was only 1 location (until the last two Frank Herbert books)....Arrakis...Once that weakness was determined the Imperium forces would just obliterate the planet and take the spice out of the equation.

There are full armies in dune. In the older books as well as the recent ones. There are also full spin off videogames showing the armies. I wouldnt consider it 100% authentic to dune but if you consider random books by nobody authors as additions to the "40k universe" then these games are additions to be taken into account as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dune_2000

I used to play this game, it had full armies for I believe House Harkonnen, Atredies and Ordos.