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Hello folks,I was wondering is it worth starting an eldar army now,even though the codex is 4th edition?Because I've heard that next year will be comming new codex so my main concern is what if they cast out all new range of eldar minatures next year and I have bought the older ones,is that possible with the comming of the next codex?Thanks!

Some things are almost certainly going to be 'safe' to buy and know they won't be changed dramatically:

Wave Serpents (don't glue the guns on)
War walkers (ditto)
Fire Prisms/Night Spinners
Wraithlords
War Walkers
Dire Avengers (hang on to the exarch options)
Support Platforms
Any character-types, especially if already cast in resin

Probably safe:
Falcons
Guardian Defenders
Fire Dragons
Pathfinders
Scorpions
Banshees
Harlequins
Dark Reapers

Likely to be replaced/remodelled:
Warp Spiders
Swooping Hawks
Wraithguard
Vypers

Bloody well better be replaced:
Jetbikes (inc Shining Spears)
Avatar

Of course, that's in terms of models. In terms of rules, and what's 'good' in-game, all we know is that things will change, but it's impossible to guess what or how - GW are spanners at writing balanced rules!



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, we can also guess there will be some new kits/characters introduced, Phoenix lords will likely be replaced among others, no-one knows for new vehicles/infantry but there will be some. Many new codexes involve a 'flying' skimmer or two so we may see such a design. That's not really germane to your question though.

My advice would be to get a few vehicles, maybe 2 DA boxes (you could buy 2 battleforces as an example) and some resin characters. Paint them up, maybe play small games. Don't build a 'full' army to any plan yet because things will certainly change.

Well, its quite easy to build a full 1.5k army out of the "safe" choices.

2x Fire Prisms, Falcons, Wave Serpents, Dire Avengers, Farseer.

Or if you don't mind splurging a bit;
9x War Walkers, Wave Serpents, Dire Avengers, Farseer, Forgeworld Avatar

Also going to add to the above list:
Probably going to be replaced models:
Storm Guardians
Some Warlock sculpts

Thanks guys,I know for avatar that will change certanly but I needed some of the other models info's thanks again !

Anuub_Slayer wrote:Thanks guys,I know for avatar that will change certanly but I needed some of the other models info's thanks again !

If you care to use an Avatar, I would suggest a Forgeworld one anyway. It really looks awesome.

Whats wrong with avatars, vipers or warp spiders? Their models are fine.
I can see a replacement of wraithgaurd and swooping hawks, because theyre both terrible models. I can also see both dire avengers as well as gaurdians being swapped for different models.
Just my two cents.
Have they actually released the news that theyre doing the Eldar codex next?

I'm pretty sure Guardians are safe. In every single release this year, including Warhammer Fantasy, has not touched the core choices (exept for Dark Eldar, but the whole line was replaced there). I think Guardians will simply be repacked to include Storm Guardian sprues.

Marzillius wrote:I'm pretty sure Guardians are safe. In every single release this year, including Warhammer Fantasy, has not touched the core choices (exept for Dark Eldar, but the whole line was replaced there). I think Guardians will simply be repacked to include Storm Guardian sprues.

The problem i saw is that GW seems to be moving to a more serious line of models, rather than a different sort of cartoony and fake look. I just think that gaurdians fulfill that look a bit to much.
I never used gaurdians because i never liked their models either

TBH - go for it, I restarted a DE army a matter of months before the re-release, bought the whole thing anew, then modded / bought up a coven after.

But ultimately, the old models will work just as well and you can add new ones later, whenever Eldar gets redone. (Which prolly won't be till 6th)

It's not so much about what anyone in particular thinks about their looks - it's that they are very old, and very much in the style of the times. As an example the warp-spiders are monopose and very 'flat' models, standing in an unnatural way to make them easier to mold, and the vyper is just not as well designed as modern kits in terms of assembly/sprue layout. (Also, you really think the avatar looks good? The design is ok but the details are clunky by modern standards and it's absolutely tiny)

I don't think they will change the warwalkers as they are very modern and well-designed kits, they do everything they could possibly do with that unit. They will not change the existing tanks because it is very much the iconic eldar look. If they changed them at all it would take up the entire release just to provide alternatives. Besides the fire prism kit is exactly the same and is very recent.

There is no announcement of an Eldar codex yet. It is just one of several codexes which is 'due' for an update, so it will almost certainly get one in 2012.

Kouzuki, that 1500pt army is the kind of thing I would advise a new player to avoid - how does he know that it will be a good choice to include 9 war walkers in a new codex? Basically I would advise the OP against maxing out any particular unit. Just get a couple troops/transport and an hq choice.

Oh - something to add, a great way to start an Eldar Army is with 3 Battleforces, a Farseer + Warlock box and work from there.

That gives you 3 Wave Serpents, which are great tanks, all the guardians you'll likely need, some dire avengers, and a squad of war walkers, aswell as your HQ and warlocky goodness.

I-bounty-hunt-the-elderly wrote:
Kouzuki, that 1500pt army is the kind of thing I would advise a new player to avoid - how does he know that it will be a good choice to include 9 war walkers in a new codex? Basically I would advise the OP against maxing out any particular unit. Just get a couple troops/transport and an hq choice.

While what you say is true, it may *not* be a good choice to include 9 war walkers in the new codex, there is also a chance that it will be a good choice. Lets just say this is a 50% chance of being a good choice, and 50% chance of being a bad choice.

Any unit or model that is currently available suffers from this 50% chance to be useful next codex. So I guess it all comes down to how you want to hedge your bets. Are you a risk taker? Go hard, win hard? max out. Watch your entire collection become god-tier or completely useless next codex. If not... buy one of everything and watch half of that collection go to waste.

Well . . . yeah. If you want to, go for it. For the record, I'm not advocating buying "one of everything" just a couple of the core choices. I think your particular example is a bit risky because war walkers are the best pure firepower in the codex right now, and that's why people max them out. There's nowhere to go but down (in terms of internal balance) for them in the next version.

But overall I meant why put in the large amount of money for a specialised competitive army which you chose purely based on the rules? If you're the sort of player who starts his armies by taking 3 of the best heavy support choices (I don't mean that in a bad way, my eldar army is as competitive as I can make it) then I don't see why you'd pick a book which will be replaced in a year and isn't currently the most powerful by a long shot.

Of course the original question is strictly 'which models will be replaced?'. And that's a seperate issue. But I've never associated the 'maximum optimised units' mode of army selection with the 'what happens happens' approach to new rules.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ah, I thought of how to put this better: I'm not saying the OP should buy a poorly designed army. I'm saying he should hold off buying ANY full army that is designed around the rules until new rules come out.

These models are the better part of 20 years old and still serviceable.
Falcons
Vypers
(The Fire prism also dates to this time but has since been redone).

These ones are older and in dire need of additional sculpts, if not a redo.
Warp Spiders. The three sculpts they have are fine, just boring. Needs more variety - and ALL of the exarch weapon options would be nice )y'know, like the other aspects get?).
Wraithguard. Same here. Three sculpts, slightly differing poses. OK, Robotic zombie things, but still. Dire Avengers, Guardians, Banshees, Scorpions Swooping Hawks and Dark Reapers have ALL been redone at least twice since incept (1990). Even the Wraithlord got a makeover (he's on V3.0 since incept of the eldar dreadnought).
Jetbikes. The same cast since 2nd edition. It's been a while, guys. A new sculpt would be nice.

Shining Spears finally came out in 3rd ed as a hybrid of the 2nd ed plastic jetbike and metal parts. If the bike/rider combo gets redone, then the riders would probably also be redone for the aspect, as they would probably not fit together anymore.
Wave serpents will probably not change (have pretty much had the same weapon options since release in 3rd ed.

I cant see a major model release for the current Eldar range anytime soon. It took them a while to get the look right as chrome dog says almost 20 years old but still lovely i think. Although i can see a lot of re-packaging.
For example as we saw in the fire prism box, 2 unit types.
I would think the falcon and serpent will end up boxed together as well.

This type of thing makes me hope for a duel WGuard box, guns and swords type thing. Also one box set for scorpions, spiders and reapers and one for banshees, dragons and hawks. Split them on armour or somesuch. Then jetbikes 3 man unit that can make guardians, jetseers and spears. They would never be able to make enough of those box sets :-) Oh why do i build up my hopes.

So anyway, go for it, I still crack out my 2nd ed banshees once in a while for a laugh and i can only see new things in the eldars future.
Dont expect a DE type release the eldar range is solid.

For all that is holy I hope that Wraithguard get re-done soon. I don't care about options just make them plastic! (even finecast if you have to, just not metal)

And hopefully jet-bikers will be redone so that don't look they are riding Harely's

A box of 3-5 Wraithguard on a sprue for less than £5 each would be nice.

I-bounty-hunt-the-elderly wrote:Some things are almost certainly going to be 'safe' to buy and know they won't be changed dramatically:

Wave Serpents (don't glue the guns on)
War walkers (ditto)
Fire Prisms/Night Spinners
Wraithlords
War Walkers
Dire Avengers (hang on to the exarch options)
Support Platforms
Any character-types, especially if already cast in resin

Probably safe:
Falcons
Guardian Defenders
Fire Dragons
Pathfinders
Scorpions
Banshees
Harlequins
Dark Reapers

Likely to be replaced/remodelled:
Warp Spiders
Swooping Hawks
Wraithguard
Vypers

Bloody well better be replaced:
Jetbikes (inc Shining Spears)
Avatar

Of course, that's in terms of models. In terms of rules, and what's 'good' in-game, all we know is that things will change, but it's impossible to guess what or how - GW are spanners at writing balanced rules!



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, we can also guess there will be some new kits/characters introduced, Phoenix lords will likely be replaced among others, no-one knows for new vehicles/infantry but there will be some. Many new codexes involve a 'flying' skimmer or two so we may see such a design. That's not really germane to your question though.

My advice would be to get a few vehicles, maybe 2 DA boxes (you could buy 2 battleforces as an example) and some resin characters. Paint them up, maybe play small games. Don't build a 'full' army to any plan yet because things will certainly change.

On the models, Avatar, Swooping hawks, and Warp spiders are remolded to finecast, I doubt they’ll bother making the molds if they were going to replace them. I could be wrong; I agree that wraithguard need to be replaced preferably in cheaper form to. Same with jet bikes preferably making them like dark eldar jet bikes in that they come in packs.

Certainly agree on the safe to buy list though, wave serpents are awesome transport you'll want a few. The eldar battle force is a pretty good buy, its almost like buying the models in the force and getting a (almost) free war walker