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A lot of what I noticed after play testing and much math, I have found a very viable necron close combat list, with fire support.

Most people see I2 as a downfall but what most people fail to see is the potential hidden within the sneaky sneaky wargear.

Firstly lets set the points at 2500~3000! (I give options for the 1500 lists)

For this list to work properly you will need to take:

1 Overlord with
Phase Shifter
Sepiternal Weave (Optional)
Warscythe
Mindshakle Scarabs (Nasty Nasty Close Combat)<----- I will break this down later.
Phylactery
Takyon Arrow

5 Necron Lord Court
All lords have:
Phase Shifter
Warscythe
Mindshakle Scarabs
Sepiternal Weave (Optional)
1 Lord has Resurrection Orb

Crypteks are optional but not necessary (take when you have spare points)
*highly recommend at least one with veil of darkness!!*
Harbingers of Despair are mucho nice!
Or the Chronometron ones.

I highly Recommend two copies of this HQ choice. (Depending on point value of game)

Not to expensive but these units will eat up a good chunk of points so only use one in games under 2000 points.

Troops
1~2 Squads:
10 Immortals with Tesla Carbines (These will be your fire support along with Vehicles)

Elites
1~2 Squads
10 Lychgaurd
5 Dispersion
5 Warscythe

1~2 C'tan Shards (optional depends on points as I have stated)
Gaze of Death (nothing hurts your enemies moral like regenerating your wounds)
Writhing Landscape

The 2nd one is up to you.

Fast Attack

1~3 Squads
Wraiths (these guys will prove themselves useful for stalling units advancing on vehicles or troops until your hq or Elites nab them up)
Whip coils *NECESSARY for at least 4*
Trans-dimensional Beamer (Optional to allocate wounds)

Finally

Heavy Support

1~2
Doomsday Arcs OR Doomscythes
Perfect for sizing up hordes...

I dont really need to explain much here its pretty straight forward...

But for the mindshakle part I do

Correct me if I am wrong I believe this works on fearless units as well but if not mow down fearless with your guns.

This is before close combat blows are struck, Nominate any enemy models and CONTROL THEM.
Target high priorities like
HQs Make them hit themselves or their units.
Power Fists/weapons *Preferably the fists D3 attacks with power fists at their own squads*
then mop up the rest with warscythes after making ur 3++!

Wraiths
Tie up anything you think will eat your troops or ships then use the lychguard to stomp on them while they are I1.

You can also separate your courts into the lychguard for some more mindshakle madness!

C&C welcome.

You are spending a lot of points to turn a shooting army in to a sub par CC army. Any shooting army could out shoot this and any non elite is not going to care about a few Mindshakle Scarabs.

That being said id be willing to throw 3000 pts of an elite army to face this list too. It is not guarantied that Mindshakle Scarabs will work.

You could make a CC Necron list with some great death stars , but I don't see the point of fighting the armies natural strengths for so little gain.

It looks like it be fun though.

Want to make necrons more close combat? Add a lord with a war scythe, orb and scarabs to any large unit.

Always charge with them and make sure that the lord gets into B2B with the scariest model in the unit (if possible make sure that no other models are in B2B that way you must randomly pick that model).

Oh and just to help make your mind up ... passing a LD test on 3D6 is this hard ... LD10 = 50%F, LD9 = 62.5%F, LD8 = 74%F, LD7 = 83.8%. Charging Nob is so much fun when they have the right weapon to cause ID to them selves.

I don't think you can mix scythes and pw/shield in the same unit of lychguard. It has to be all one or the other within a unit.

To me, the problem is not so much the I2 (although that's bad enough) but also the WS4. Even dedicated assault units like wraiths have only WS4. Half your attacks whiff against all marines.

You might get an initial advantage in an assault fight with an army like this, because of being able to factor in things like charge bonus and the scarab gimmick. But if you don't cripple or gut your opponent with that initial charge, the combination of low model count, few attacks, low initiative and half your attacks missing every round will start to take its toll, even against the res-orb-buffed RP. Necrons don't look able to score enough damage to win an attrition fight.

Flavius Infernus wrote:I don't think you can mix scythes and pw/shield in the same unit of lychguard. It has to be all one or the other within a unit.

To me, the problem is not so much the I2 (although that's bad enough) but also the WS4. Even dedicated assault units like wraiths have only WS4. Half your attacks whiff against all marines.

You might get an initial advantage in an assault fight with an army like this, because of being able to factor in things like charge bonus and the scarab gimmick. But if you don't cripple or gut your opponent with that initial charge, the combination of low model count, few attacks, low initiative and half your attacks missing every round will start to take its toll, even against the res-orb-buffed RP. Necrons don't look able to score enough damage to win an attrition fight.

Actually the wording says, You may give the unit Dispersion shields and Hyperphase for +5 points a model... Never stating that the whole unit HAS to take them. But correct me if I'm wrong when it says "may" and per model does that not imply that I have the choice?

Yes it does...

Exact wording:
"THE ENTIRE SQUAD may exchange warscythers for hyperphase swords and dispersion shields.............. 5 points per model."

Go double-check your codex.

For further proof this is read as "all or nothing" look at how the wraith wargear is phrased. Specifically, "Any model may take..."

deviant cadaver wrote:You are spending a lot of points to turn a shooting army in to a sub par CC army. Any shooting army could out shoot this and any non elite is not going to care about a few Mindshakle Scarabs.

That being said id be willing to throw 3000 pts of an elite army to face this list too. It is not guarantied that Mindshakle Scarabs will work.

You could make a CC Necron list with some great death stars , but I don't see the point of fighting the armies natural strengths for so little gain.

It looks like it be fun though.

We'll to be honest yes their shooting is superior, but in turn after a lot of games and testing "different" lists I found this to be the most viable CC way to bring out necrons...combined with the numerous invul saves it actually works pretty well even in low end games.

Testing included
Incubi cult DE lists
Ork Mob lists
Generic Marine lists using terminators and land raiders
Other necron lists
Tyranids lists both MC spam and Mob lists
Blood Angels Jump pack assault lists
and finally Black templar.

I would have to say against mobs it turned out quite nicely, against MEQs it more than did its job...the weakness in this list isn't really firepower its still there...its more or less paying attention to every detail of whats going on.

Its not easy to play but it works well if you know what you are doing.

But maybe its the way I used them particularly...



Automatically Appended Next Post:

WanderingFox wrote:Yes it does...

Exact wording:
"THE ENTIRE SQUAD may exchange warscythers for hyperphase swords and dispersion shields.............. 5 points per model."

Go double-check your codex.

For further proof this is read as "all or nothing" look at how the wraith wargear is phrased. Specifically, "Any model may take..."

Right that's what I was saying, just in not so many words...regardless they still do well either or...

Still to be honest only 1 game has been played with the mixed unit of shields and scythes...


Anyway, looking at the may just confused me a bit... it is that "may" that leaves it a little open ended when I read it.

It was after an argument just like this one where another necron player was saying that they were able to mix them, after hearing his point on wording I felt he was sort of right... but still.

generally when they allow you to mix and match, don't they say "any model may...."?

"The entire squad may..." Means the entire squad. The whole squad. Not half the squad. Not "any model in the squad". The entire squad. So either they all switch, or they all don't.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

WanderingFox wrote:Yes it does...

Exact wording:
"THE ENTIRE SQUAD may exchange warscythers for hyperphase swords and dispersion shields.............. 5 points per model."

Go double-check your codex.

For further proof this is read as "all or nothing" look at how the wraith wargear is phrased. Specifically, "Any model may take..."

Right that's what I was saying, just in not so many words...regardless they still do well either or...

Still to be honest only 1 game has been played with the mixed unit of shields and scythes...


Anyway, looking at the may just confused me a bit... it is that "may" that leaves it a little open ended when I read it.

It was after an argument just like this one where another necron player was saying that they were able to mix them, after hearing his point on wording I felt he was sort of right... but still.

One does not simply make cc necrons.

Close combat crons can be done, just like shooty nids. It's a little tricky. I wouldn't go with a deathstar royal court. Instead, I would go with wraiths followed by a scarab-farm and HoD crypteks for fire support.

At 2K, this is how I would play cc-crons. It would also be a balanced list that can go up against almost any army IMO.


Necrons 2K
Destroyer Lord - Warscythe, Weave, Scarabs - 160
4x HoD Crypteks - 1x Solar Pulse - 160

Destroyer Lord - Warscythe, Weave, Scarabs - 160
4x HoD Crypteks - 1x Solar Pulse - 160

5x Warriors - 65
5x Warriors - 65
5x Warriors - 65
5x Warriors - 65

10x Canoptek Scarabs - 150
6x Canoptek Wraiths - 3x Whip Coils, 1x pistol - 245
6x Canoptek Wraiths - 3x Whip Coils, 1x pistol - 245

3x Spyders - 150
3x Spyders - 150
3x Spyders - 150

1990


Destroyer Lord would of course join the wraiths. 2 crypteks each will join the warriors and spyders will keep farming scarabs. You've got threats everywhere. Not a pure-cc army, but it's a very good and balanced necron list.

jy2 wrote:Close combat crons can be done, just like shooty nids. It's a little tricky. I wouldn't go with a deathstar royal court. Instead, I would go with wraiths followed by a scarab-farm and HoD crypteks for fire support.

At 2K, this is how I would play cc-crons. It would also be a balanced list that can go up against almost any army IMO.


Necrons 2K
Destroyer Lord - Warscythe, Weave, Scarabs - 160
4x HoD Crypteks - 1x Solar Pulse - 160

Destroyer Lord - Warscythe, Weave, Scarabs - 160
4x HoD Crypteks - 1x Solar Pulse - 160

5x Warriors - 65
5x Warriors - 65
5x Warriors - 65
5x Warriors - 65

10x Canoptek Scarabs - 150
6x Canoptek Wraiths - 3x Whip Coils, 1x pistol - 245
6x Canoptek Wraiths - 3x Whip Coils, 1x pistol - 245

3x Spyders - 150
3x Spyders - 150
3x Spyders - 150

1990


Destroyer Lord would of course join the wraiths. 2 crypteks each will join the warriors and spyders will keep farming scarabs. You've got threats everywhere. Not a pure-cc army, but it's a very good and balanced necron list.

I like this list well thought out and very good balance.... Might have to build and try

Any list that goes against the grain and character of an army is bound to be inefficient and substandard, unless the rules are broken someplace. Still, it is fun to ponder.

The particular list seems it has insufficient scarabs. Note that if the single unit gets wiped out, the spyders will have no unit to boost. So, if my reading of the codex is right, the power will just fail. Also, those small units of warriors will be wiped out with ease, depriving the models of RP rolls. If you want to play MSU, you have to provide a lot of them - 4 is not enough at 2000 pts. Otherwise, in 66% of the battles, I'd just wipe out your scoring units and then the best you can do is a tie, which means I just need to clear one objective to win. That is pretty much an auto-loss against any half-competent opponent.

IMO, you have to go all wraiths or all scarabs - no mixing - for maximal punch. Then build the rest of the army to support that core properly.

Necrontyr40k wrote:Any list that goes against the grain and character of an army is bound to be inefficient and substandard, unless the rules are broken someplace. Still, it is fun to ponder.

The particular list seems it has insufficient scarabs. Note that if the single unit gets wiped out, the spyders will have no unit to boost. So, if my reading of the codex is right, the power will just fail. Also, those small units of warriors will be wiped out with ease, depriving the models of RP rolls. If you want to play MSU, you have to provide a lot of them - 4 is not enough at 2000 pts. Otherwise, in 66% of the battles, I'd just wipe out your scoring units and then the best you can do is a tie, which means I just need to clear one objective to win. That is pretty much an auto-loss against any half-competent opponent.

IMO, you have to go all wraiths or all scarabs - no mixing - for maximal punch. Then build the rest of the army to support that core properly.

Trust me, 1 unit of 10 scarabs is all you need, especially when you're making 9 more each turn. Spread them out 2" apart and blasts can only hit 3 at most (I think actually 2). Plus, they've got 3+ cover due to stealth and you should be using your Solar Pulse on Turn 1 against shooty armies. Besides, the scarabs aren't really that scary compared to the wraiths.

Spread out those warriors and use Solar Pulse to protect them. Since lances have 36" range + 6" moving, keep your warriors safe in the back. If you need to, reserve 1 or even 2 warrior units and deploy their crypteks as a separate unit in cover. Let the opponent waste their firepower on just 2 lance guys while you have 2 deathstars and a rapidly-growing unit pressuring them.

You may think it's easy to kill 28 guys, but with maximum spacing, cover, RP, night-fighting and 3 mega-fast-and-dangerous units, not to mention 9 monstrous creatures, it really isn't. But I guess you just have to play against a scarab-farm (or to play one) to realize how dangerous they can be.

jy2 wrote:Close combat crons can be done, just like shooty nids. It's a little tricky. I wouldn't go with a deathstar royal court. Instead, I would go with wraiths followed by a scarab-farm and HoD crypteks for fire support.

At 2K, this is how I would play cc-crons. It would also be a balanced list that can go up against almost any army IMO.


Necrons 2K
Destroyer Lord - Warscythe, Weave, Scarabs - 160
4x HoD Crypteks - 1x Solar Pulse - 160

Destroyer Lord - Warscythe, Weave, Scarabs - 160
4x HoD Crypteks - 1x Solar Pulse - 160

5x Warriors - 65
5x Warriors - 65
5x Warriors - 65
5x Warriors - 65

10x Canoptek Scarabs - 150
6x Canoptek Wraiths - 3x Whip Coils, 1x pistol - 245
6x Canoptek Wraiths - 3x Whip Coils, 1x pistol - 245

3x Spyders - 150
3x Spyders - 150
3x Spyders - 150

1990


Destroyer Lord would of course join the wraiths. 2 crypteks each will join the warriors and spyders will keep farming scarabs. You've got threats everywhere. Not a pure-cc army, but it's a very good and balanced necron list.

That wont work unfortunately as the DLord doesnt unlock a court. Only overlords and the characters noted in the Royal court section unlock their use.

Shake Zoola wrote:

jy2 wrote:Close combat crons can be done, just like shooty nids. It's a little tricky. I wouldn't go with a deathstar royal court. Instead, I would go with wraiths followed by a scarab-farm and HoD crypteks for fire support.

At 2K, this is how I would play cc-crons. It would also be a balanced list that can go up against almost any army IMO.


Necrons 2K
Destroyer Lord - Warscythe, Weave, Scarabs - 160
4x HoD Crypteks - 1x Solar Pulse - 160

Destroyer Lord - Warscythe, Weave, Scarabs - 160
4x HoD Crypteks - 1x Solar Pulse - 160

5x Warriors - 65
5x Warriors - 65
5x Warriors - 65
5x Warriors - 65

10x Canoptek Scarabs - 150
6x Canoptek Wraiths - 3x Whip Coils, 1x pistol - 245
6x Canoptek Wraiths - 3x Whip Coils, 1x pistol - 245

3x Spyders - 150
3x Spyders - 150
3x Spyders - 150

1990


Destroyer Lord would of course join the wraiths. 2 crypteks each will join the warriors and spyders will keep farming scarabs. You've got threats everywhere. Not a pure-cc army, but it's a very good and balanced necron list.

That wont work unfortunately as the DLord doesnt unlock a court. Only overlords and the characters noted in the Royal court section unlock their use.

Oh really? Don't have my codex with me. In that case, I'd swap out the 2 destroyer lords for 2 scythe overlords in command barges and maybe drop 1 HoD cryptek.

So now instead of having 3 fast threats pressuring the opponent, I'd have 5 units in a more distributed attack.


Necrons 2K
Overlord - Warscythe, Command Barge - 180
4x HoD Crypteks - 1x Solar Pulse - 160

Overlord - Warscythe, Command Barge - 180
3x HoD Crypteks - 1x Solar Pulse - 125

5x Warriors - 65
5x Warriors - 65
5x Warriors - 65
5x Warriors - 65

10x Canoptek Scarabs - 150
6x Canoptek Wraiths - 3x Whip Coils, 1x pistol - 245
6x Canoptek Wraiths - 3x Whip Coils, 1x pistol - 245

3x Spyders - 150
3x Spyders - 150
3x Spyders - 150

1995

jy2 wrote:
Trust me, 1 unit of 10 scarabs is all you need, especially when you're making 9 more each turn. Spread them out 2" apart and blasts can only hit 3 at most (I think actually 2). Plus, they've got 3+ cover due to stealth and you should be using your Solar Pulse on Turn 1 against shooty armies. Besides, the scarabs aren't really that scary compared to the wraiths.

Actually, it is 7.5 scarab per 9 spyders on average, at the cost of 1.5 unsavable wounds to a T6 unit.

The wraiths have an invulnerable save and no RP. Smart players will be shooting them up with basic weapons and keeping the pies and templates for the scarabs. The stealth save is a cover save, so templates will ignore it. Each unsaved wound on scarabs will kill two models, so a unit of 10 cannot be that difficult to wipe out. There is virtually no choice but to concentrate everything S6-7 on the scarabs for the first turn or two, because if not wiped out, they will resupply, while basic guns hit the wraiths. Depending on LOS and personal preference, the shooter can also choose to direct the S8-10 weapons against wraiths or spyders. I'd probably hit the wraiths first because they are faster, closer (in nightfight) and can be ID-ed.

Also, don't overestimate night fighting rules benefit. The average roll is 21.5 inches and different shooty armies have different ways to overcome it anyway, e.g. searchlights for IG.

Spread out those warriors and use Solar Pulse to protect them. Since lances have 36" range + 6" moving, keep your warriors safe in the back. If you need to, reserve 1 or even 2 warrior units and deploy their crypteks as a separate unit in cover. Let the opponent waste their firepower on just 2 lance guys while you have 2 deathstars and a rapidly-growing unit pressuring them.

Your warriors will not be shot at all during turn 1-2, both because of the solar pulses and because they only matter on turn 5-6. I'd first wipe out the scarabs, then the wraiths; then in turn 4-5, wipe out the warriors. The lance is a gimmick - no good player is going to waste time trying to kill it. When all is said and done, it is just a lascannon, which may miss anyway.

Also, to be effective as scoring units, your warriors have to get to objectives. Without transports and monoliths, they will have to slog it across the board. That makes them easy targets for shooting and fast, hard-hitting CC units. They will be particularly vulnerable to deep-strikers as well.

You may think it's easy to kill 28 guys, but with maximum spacing, cover, RP, night-fighting and 3 mega-fast-and-dangerous units, not to mention 9 monstrous creatures, it really isn't. But I guess you just have to play against a scarab-farm (or to play one) to realize how dangerous they can be.

Granted I do not have much experience with the new necrons, but I got plenty with the old ones (see sig).

This is not a weak list, but it has serious weaknesses IMO, ones that a savvy opponent will exploit with relative ease and rather straightforward plan and targeting priority.

Evegoden wrote:Testing included
Incubi cult DE lists
Ork Mob lists
Generic Marine lists using terminators and land raiders
Other necron lists
Tyranids lists both MC spam and Mob lists
Blood Angels Jump pack assault lists
and finally Black templar.

So, despite never testing this against an actual mech list, you consider this tactic good to go?